Fireplace install - is this an upsell?

[jacko555]

Ok, given a large cast iron fire place insert.

See pic.

My existing tiled fileplace, which is not original, has a fireback insert, the has been used to reduce the original fireplace "box" (the large square bricked area where the fire would burn in a grate). So theres a fireback reducing the size of the firebox by 70%, with the space behind backfilled with sand, and a tiled fileplace surround built around it.

So my simple mind thinks take the tiled fireplace off the wall, remove the fireback and sand, whack the cast iron one on. Optionally add a new fireback if the firebox area is too big.

Had an installer look at the cast iron and said its missing a fireback and flue flap plate, so it useless.

He can however sell me a entirely reconditioned unit.

Is this an upsell? In your opinion, is the cast iron unit I have useless, or, am I correct that it can be used safely how I envisaged? The cast iron units in my parents house back onto brick fire boxes. I don't think ive seen one (apart from photos) with a flue flap plate etc.

I guess I need to find another installer for their opinion, although value yours, so I'm not wasting my time.

 

[Bodgedbuild]

I think he is being legit. In days of old you could have your fire with no flue liner etc but as you are installing a new fire place it has to conform to latest regs. It sounds like he may not have anything to connect a flue liner to on the fire place you wish to install. All of this is assuming you wish to use it of course?

 

[jacko555]

It sounds like he may not have anything to connect a flue liner to on the fire place you wish to install. All of this is assuming you wish to use it of course

Yes, I want to swap fireplaces inserts on a working fireplace. I've recently moved. Last fireplace was just a fire in a brick box hole. If I removed the tile fireback etc, I have something v.similar to below, in terms of the brick fire box that holds the grate

Representative image from google

This is why I'm perplexed we cannot whack the insert over it...

 

[Bodgedbuild]

You could use that, as is, and break no rules. Fitting something to replace it is the catch. Is the installer HETAS approved? If he is, he should be able to advise everything required to keep it safe (I think a carbon monoxide alarm is required) and to allow it to conform to regulations.

 

[Bodgedbuild]

Erm, I take it the wooden beam is going? that would not conform, also does the room have a vent or airbrick? It may require one if the fire output is unknown or deemed to be above 5kw

 

[jacko555]

That's just an example photo from google... shows what I have better, as mine has tbe firebrick and sand in the way..

Yes, he is hetas approved. Just unwilling, it appears, to do anything unless he sells me the bits, or, explain anything.

I completely understand if it is modern safety regs, though, just, frustrated he didn't explain beyond "that's usless, buy from me instead" which instantly sounded sketchy, and, no responses to why we couldn't use whats there.

 

[Bodgedbuild]

Its worth finding a person you get along with. Apart from advice on what is required, you will probably want him to sweep it every year. I'd go with another installer if you are at all unsure. Bear in mind how worthwhile the actual job is though, to the installer I mean, it's a bit like leaving the parts on your car seat when you take you car to the garage. I would leave it to the installer to supply flue/throatplates etc..

 

[jacko555]

Well, spoke with and shared photos with another hetas fireplace installer.

This chap reckons it'll be good. If, once we dig out the fireback and sand, and find the space is too big, he can pad it out with some firebricks etc.

Was very positive and pragmatic that it'll work.

More importantly didnt tell me it was scrap and would have to buy a near identical unit from him

 

[Hogglet80]

Well, spoke with and shared photos with another hetas fireplace installer.

This chap reckons it'll be good. If, once we dig out the fireback and sand, and find the space is too big, he can pad it out with some firebricks etc.

Was very positive and pragmatic that it'll work.

More importantly didnt tell me it was scrap and would have to buy a near identical unit from him

 

[Hogglet80]

Do you install yourself? I’ve spoke to 6 x HETAS people and they only want to install wood burners. We are going to have a go at doing it ourselves.

 

[jacko555]

No, I got a heatas chap to do it.
Took a while to find one that would and issue a cert.
If you do it yourself, you need building regs sign-off or your house insurance won't cover if there's a unintended fire, death etc.
Also you'll have issues selling.

 

[Hogglet80]

No, I got a heatas chap to do it.
Took a while to find one that would and issue a cert.
If you do it yourself, you need building regs sign-off or your house insurance won't cover if there's a unintended fire, death etc.
Also you'll have issues selling.

Thanks. I bought the house with two fires (one open and one cast iron gas). Never had an issue buying and didn’t get certs from previous owners either - how do you know when they were installed and if ever modified and when. Both my chimneys have been swept and signed off each year by a HETAS certified sweep.
What’s bonkers is, I’m very happy to pay HETAS person to come and do but the 6 in our area are not interested. No wonder people end up trying themselves and accidents happen. Hey ho will keep looking
Appreciate you responding.

 

[jacko555]

Never had an issue buying and didn’t get certs from previous owners either - how do you know when they were installed and if ever modified and when.

I've never had one for house purchases either. I think ones that came with the house / before building regs it's fine.

However, adding a new one/modifying needs one.

If you do make insurance claim, and it's due to a non Certified / diy fireplace /burner install, you're not gonna get a payout.

Its just expensive delegation of risk