First Fix - Running cable - Which way?

[diybristol]

i am getting an electrician to actually do wiring on my extension, however I am doing the first fix, running cable and putting in boxes..

Is there anything by law that you have to run in a certain way, I have done upstairs fine but downstairs has block wall and part celing up so harder to run up and down, so was thinking of going to ground each time or looping along inline.

Any websites on this?

 

[andy]

i am getting an electrician to actually do wiring on my extension, however I am doing the first fix, running cable and putting in boxes..

Is there anything by law that you have to run in a certain way, I have done upstairs fine but downstairs has block wall and part celing up so harder to run up and down, so was thinking of going to ground each time or looping along inline.

Any websites on this?

aslong as they are wired so they are on a ring/radial or whatever, and they are in permitted areas then you should be OK. try s3earchin for the areas where you can put stuff.

also, have you spoke to a sparky about this? they cannot sign off your work, only their own. and are you aware of part P?

 

[diybristol]

yes this is what I am after the areas you can put the wire, i.e. does it need to be run up and down or left and right.

Forget Part P, you don't need it as long as the work is checked by building reg's, there was a post on this recently.

I am using a legit electrician but as he is doing work on side can't offer a Part P completion cert.

As I am doing first fix to save cash, I just wanted to check really where you can and can't run wires as dont want to fail Building control test for running wrong way across for instance.

 

[Hallsy]

Slightly off topic but are you saying that say in the event of an extension build where you'd be applying for pp, and having building inspectors around anyway you don;t need anymore certification/inspection on the electrics?

 

[andy]

yes this is what I am after the areas you can put the wire, i.e. does it need to be run up and down or left and right.

Forget Part P, you don't need it as long as the work is checked by building reg's, there was a post on this recently.

I am using a legit electrician but as he is doing work on side can't offer a Part P completion cert.

As I am doing first fix to save cash, I just wanted to check really where you can and can't run wires as dont want to fail Building control test for running wrong way across for instance.

like i said, do a search for the areas. there are loads of other threads on the same thing

also, as already mentioned, the electrics might be in with the planning permission for the extension. if so, dont let them charge you extra for the electrics.

 

[diybristol]

Yes you don't need Part P on an extension build, check the post here...

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31844&highlight=

I double checked with Building Control and yes it is true, so no problem.]

It is probably easier to get an electricain with Part P, but for me would have cost £2000 and now is costing around £500 for still a skilled electrician but without part P.

The thing is having to be Part P is what they want as more money, more VAT etc...

Having a tested system is just as safe as if the person doing it was no good it would be picked up by Building Control Electrics test anyhow.

 

[diybristol]

Yes thanks Andy, you are right... I phoned them and they kinda said you can get it tested, I said no you can test it and they had to agree as per new ODPM issue to all councils as it should be part of the £400 fee.

 

[Mr Winston]

Yes thanks Andy, you are right... I phoned them and they kinda said you can get it tested, I said no you can test it and they had to agree as per new ODPM issue to all councils as it should be part of the £400 fee.

so when they test it dont be surprised if your previous comment comes back to haunt you....here's a reminder

Having a tested system is just as safe as if the person doing it was no good it would be picked up by Building Control Electrics test anyhow.

how many faults will be found?


part p is the regulation reference so your still complying with it just in an alternative way to using a self certifying electrician

 

[diybristol]

NO FAULTS will be found, as an electrician is doing the main work and I am just running the cables.

 

[Paul Barker]

Just one small point not picked up on earlier in the thread. An electrician with his c and g in the Big Brown Book and the Full inspection and Testing qualification (forgotten the number) CAN inspect test and certify YOUR work as well as his own.

A person with the limited qualification which entightels them to do electrical work under the part P rules (like myself, EAL level 2) can only certify their own work at the time of the work, and cannot re- test it at the interval he/she recommends in future (max 10 years), and neither can he/she ceryify any work anyone else did. He can however and must inspect and test other aspects of your installation to do his job right. Just can't give you a certificate worth any more than the paper it's writtten on.

Well at least that is what I was told by the tutors at the Faraday Centre non of whome have less than 25 years in the industry.

 

[diybristol]

This is TRUE paul!

I don't know why but this thread has turned into a Part P thread, when I simply asked initally was there law about how you run the cables which I have since found out here http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/concealedcables.pdf

I am basically doing first fix myself then a fully qualified electricain will do the rest, but he happens to be a friend and working cheap, hence why no Part P certificate etc.

So I get a £2000 job for £500, I think that is pretty good going.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well at least that is what I was told by the tutors at the Faraday Centre non of whome have less than 25 years in the industry.

Well - they might know a lot about electrical installations, and the IEE Wiring Regulations, but they know SFA about the Building Regulations.

Just one small point not picked up on earlier in the thread. An electrician with his c and g in the Big Brown Book and the Full inspection and Testing qualification (forgotten the number) CAN inspect test and certify YOUR work as well as his own.

He can inspect and test, and issue I&T EICs. But this is not the same as certifying compliance with the Building Regulations. The only person who can certify someone else's work as compliant with the Building Regulations is a Building Inspector.

A person with the limited qualification which entightels them to do electrical work under the part P rules (like myself, EAL level 2) can only certify their own work at the time of the work, and cannot re- test it at the interval he/she recommends in future (max 10 years), and neither can he/she ceryify any work anyone else did.

Again you are getting hopelessly confused about the difference between certifying an electrical installation for compliance with BS7671, and certifying compliance with the Building Regulations.

For the latter, you need to be registered with one of the competent person schemes, and it doesn't matter who you are, or what qualifications you have, or what scope of registration you have, you can only certify your own work.

For the former, you don't need to be registered, and you don't officially need any qualifications, you just need to be able to sign the declaration that says

"I/We, being the person(s) responsible for the inspection and testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my/our signatures below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the inspection and testing, hereby CERTIFY that the work for which I/we have been responsible is to the best of my/our knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671, amended to (date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:"

He can however and must inspect and test other aspects of your installation to do his job right. Just can't give you a certificate worth any more than the paper it's writtten on.

Carrying out inspections and issuing PIRs are legitimate activities for an electrician. You don't officially need any qualifications to do it, nor do you need to be registered with any trade bodies, and if you are registered, NICEIC/NAPIT/ECA/ELECSA/UTCAA cannot stop you from doing it. They may stop you from using their certificates but they cannot stop you doing the work using certificates from the IEE website or your test equipment manufacturer.

As to whether the certificate is worth anything - that depends on how competent you are, just as it always has....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I simply asked initally was there law about how you run the cables which I have since found out here http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/concealedcables.pdf

There's this one as well: http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/C5-43.pdf