Flooded garden

[Gardennightmare2024]

Hi guys
The main run of pipe is heading in the direction of my house downpipe looking up towards my house. The section that’s branching off diagonal which is heading under the neighbour on my right is heading towards their surface pipe. But our live working surface water pipe is running along adjacent to our houses that turns off down the neighbours shared brick alleyway out to the front of house sewer.
Could this mysterious pipe system be part of an old surface drainage system ?
No manholes anywhere in back or front gardens. Even the live drain gutter has been blocked over by the council so the camera was fed through my downpipe drain to see what is going on.
Need to get another cctv camera survey up the open ended pipe that’s at the beginning of the lawn. Make sure it’s not going anywhere into a live system.
Make sure it doesn’t actually carry any water. Get rid of all the buried pipes when I know for sure they aren’t part of any live system.
Neighbour on my right has flooded wet clay soil in certain area and metal detector bleeped crazy but they won’t dig.
My garden was flooded by the open ended diagonal pipe.
The CON search sewerage record is not to be trusted because nobody knew about the other long run of pipe that goes through our garden that feeds the next streets surface water. And I know the manhole at the very bottom of my garden does not connect to these mysterious pipes.
I’ve googled that junction box and can’t find anything like it anywhere.
Could just be a man made drainage set up but I don’t think it is.
So the mystery continues until the neighbour digs there garden.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I have never heard of or come across anything like that in 35 years of working in and around drains. I think Harry may be onto something in #15, it has all the hallmarks of someone putting in their own DIY system using what they had available, in an attempt to drain a (very) wet plot.

Difficult to tell route of 'drain' from previous posts, any chance of an aerial shot or drawing showing property and surroundings with route of drain marked? Along with any known Severn Trent assets, i.e. manholes.

Afraid Severn Trent wont be keen to get involved as unless you can prove their assets are complicit in helping create this situation, then it really isn't anything to do with them.

 

[Gardennightmare2024]

Hi Hugh and guys

My house is the end house of 4. Been there since 2004. Never had this flooding. Never noticed these cast iron pipes when I had the garden dug lawn laid. Noticed last year the right hand side looking down garden that the lawn was getting wet. The section on the right of the lawn stepping stones. It was a nice sloped soil section graduated slope across with weed sheeting plants shrubs grasses gravel. It was landscaped had the lawn and borders done 2014.
So it got wet and new neighbours to my right the upper higher garden said there garden was wet. They told council. So I started digging holes in my border by lawn and gravel area to investigate. Council told us phone Severn Trent. I found a pipe section by the gravel planting area. Showed Severn Trent. Showed them the steel manhole lid which is at the very bottom of the garden. They decided the bottom drain was the culprit. They found tree roots in the pipe across the 3 other houses. They re-lined it from access from the other end house manhole in February. They said that long pipe serves the houses around the next street for their back of house downpipes. This pipe and drains is not on Severn Trent’s maps or council maps. No record of it anywhere. It runs diagonally from bottom of my garden and goes uphill across the 4 gardens. I have not seen the inlet and outlet pipe layout inside the neighbours manhole. He’s the end house. There’s a electricy brick building station next to his then next street.
I told everyone this pipe isn’t the source of flooding. I said it was something to do with the section of pipe at the beginning of lawn gravel plant section. So I dug more. ST visited stood in the hole of water. Their camera hit something. They told me it was a private drain pipe to dig find a manhole. So I’ve used a metal detector, metal prodding stick and my no bend spade and found these cast iron pipes. Haven’t found a manhole under my lawn yet.
I had to dig out the first pipe which is at the beginning of the lawn at a diagonal angle aiming back towards my neighbour to my right towards my boundary fence. Can see water trickling out the clay soil under the fence and it was filling up with water and travelling through the pipe which ended under the by the stepping stone. I carried on digging the trench around the other 24 ft run of pipes. Dug the trench to the bottom of the lawn to try to get the water to drain out. So the wavy section of trench at the end of the trench hasn’t got any cast iron pipes there.
The 24ft pipe stops and joined into that junction box hole. The junction has an open end where a pipe joined into it. The pipe goes horizontally it bears off left to my neighbour on the left. I can see a pipe joint so it must have another 6ft pipe which would go under the fence on the neighbour on my left looking down the garden. So the 24 ft pipe has pipes branching off it feeds into my neighbour on my right and my left.

Why would anyone back in 1939 when the houses were built lay cast iron pipes feeding across to my neighbour on my right and left ?
Land drainage pipes are clay to soak up excess ground water and surely they would not have been laid aiming across under fences borders into other peoples gardens.

I see water coming out pipe that is still buried under the lawn near where I step down into the lawn.

I just bought a rubber nylon thread bung which I will try fitting to see if after a few days I take it off if water comes out the pipe.

That section of trench was nearly dry Friday. It filled up of water after I done more digging and uncovered that section of pipe.

Soon as I dug and found the horizontal pipe the one joined to the junction box it started filling of water. It was dry when I was digging the trench. It’s leaking water from the end of the 6ft pipe joint. So the pipe has a slight slope from the neighbour on my left.

These pipes are sloping in towards my garden.

If ST and council didn’t know about that huge surface water pipe and 2 manholes that serves the next street and argued that one was a private drain then you can’t blame me for not trusting anyone or anything. ST has adopted that pipe now.

Is it worth paying for a camera survey in these mysterious pipe ends ?
If the pipes aren’t obstructed with soil will the camera be able to measure distances of the pipes ?
Will the camera cable bend around joint angles ?
Will the engineer be able to draw me a map with measurements and angles ?

 

[Gardennightmare2024]

Manhole bottom of my garden shows or clay feed in and out

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Is it worth paying for a camera survey in these mysterious pipe ends ?
If the pipes aren’t obstructed with soil will the camera be able to measure distances of the pipes ?
Will the camera cable bend around joint angles ?

If you have access to a pipe end, or could cut a hole in the pipe - you should be able to push the likes of a drain rod in, to see how far it goes in, before it hits something, then mark the rod, as a measurement. In the past, I've used those thin, very flexible, fibreglass tent poles, which have an elastic down the centre of them.

 

[Gardennightmare2024]

Good idea I have a two man tent in shed that’s got some elastic sticks.
Will have to dig some more trench space tomo night after work, put the sticks in the open pipe end.
Haven’t been poking around or digging today
Needed to get away from the destruction
It’s making me mad and sad

 

[Why Not Indeed]

It’s making me mad and sad

Like Harry Bloomfield said, it's been very wet of late.
It might help your mental health to bear in mind that the Met Office say this has been the wettest 18 months since records began in 1836. So it's probably not everybody conspiring to direct water into your garden, it's just that it's rained a lot, and what you have uncovered is a predecessor's attempt to drain the garden.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I am wondering if the cast pipes predate the property, any idea what, if anything, was on the site before? Also possibly there is a natural spring that someone tapped into in the past to feed something else, hence the pipework. Also have Severn Trent tested this water to see if it is mains (tap) water?

Is the surface water manhole/sewer pictured, on your property? If it is, I'd be inclined to put some land drainage through your Garden, and connect into the sewer to get rid of the water.

Afraid there are still many sewers up and down the Country that are not mapped/water Companies aren't aware of. Up until 1974, when the larger Water Authorities were created, years ago, in many areas the sewers and sewage treatment were the responsibility of the Local Council, with most holding paper records/drawings of what ran where. Some Council's retained responsibility post 1974 for the sewers, (partly what led me into this line of work was doing Work Experience at school in the late 80's, with my Local Council Engineers section, who still looked after the District's sewers as agents for the Water Authority.

Transfer back to the Water Company has since taken place, but again, the rules changed in 2011, with all the Water Companies taken ownership of many thousands more miles of sewers, when former Private sewers came under their remit. So there are large swathes of the Country where no formal mapping of the sewer network exists, drawings have been lost/damaged over the years and some loss in translation when the paper drawings were transferred onto Computer.

Often it's only when a problem arises and the Water Co. get involved, that they find another chunk of the sewer network they were unaware of and it can be mapped and put onto their records. It's not as uncommon as you may think!

 

[Gardennightmare2024]

Hi Hugh

We poked a 10ft stick up the pipe and gunk came out, I panicked thought it was Pooh. ST came out yesterday, tested it for foul but it’s not. It’s just corroded weird soil. They’ve checked old maps and they think it’s historical drainage to possibly an old building before our houses were built in 1939. Council ignoring me for 3 weeks they have visited my neighbours garden which hadn’t been dug so no pipes found there. Haven’t been to me. Not phoned me. Not interested in all the damage this broken pipe caused. Not interested in looking for any old maps. Not taking ownership of this drainage. So ST said throw the pipes away and the ones buried deep under all the paved patio retaining wall section just concrete the pipe hole.
My garden is drying out now. The water flood was that corner where the one pipe was. The water has drained out through the soil and down the trench. Whole lawn soil is completely wrecked from waking and digging in rain and flood. Going to dig the pipes out the lawn section throw out because nobody has taken ownership. Dig the soil back into trenches. Try to fix the corner plant border try saving some of the decorative gravel from out the soil mess.

If the garden gets flooded again then that’s going to be from the higher ground neighbours garden but it’s never flooded in 20 years. If it does then I will dig trenches again lay land drain pipes and ask ST if I can connect into the surface water manhole at the very bottom of the garden. Which I hope I won’t have to because it will mean destroying my large gravel path area. More work again.
I would like to enjoy my garden pottering around.
Probably not worth buying new turf yet either.
Luckily this drainage is deep under patio if it is leading from near my house. Otherwise it could cause damp etc. it’s too far away to damage the house. it’s a good 36 metres away from house.

But I think you’re right it’s possible it’s from an old building some type of abandoned sewer.
Our houses are built on mines, quarries and clay pits. We do have local streams, ponds and some are now filled in boggy fields.
I phoned environment agency and they said nothing on maps close to my house.
I’ve searched all sorts phoned everywhere. Been quite interesting looking into the history of our area and drainage history.
Everyone I know is bored of my drainage talk lmao
To add to my dramas we’ve got a bust collapsed toilet drain at work. Toilet broke out of order since last Friday. Maybe I should give my boss my cast iron pipes to fix the works pipes and shove him down the manhole with my no bend spade lmao

 

[Gardennightmare2024]

Hi guys

So the damage and drama continues. The pipe starts under my patio steps. We’ve dug everything out. Found a brick chamber with the pipe leading from it. Council officers are adamant these gardens have buried land drainage pipes. No **** Sherlock! It’s obvious it’s shared pipes because they go into my neighbours on my left and I am 100% sure they start from my neighbour on my right under the boundary fence across their garden. But the council won’t get a metal detector to find the rotted open end pipes. I am 100% sure the neighbours garden is soaking wet flooded dispersing channelled open end pipe water into my garden. Environmental officers visited told me to stop digging to re connect new pipes onto the buried pipe the first pipe near my step, the beginning section of pipe. Well if I took his blind advice I would be connecting new pipes onto a rotted pipe. I ignored his advice and found that the pipe was rotted with big holes in it. So that stupid blind advice would have cost me graft, time and wasted money. Stupid idea to connect to a broken pipe!
So I’m being told being enforced to fix my private shared pipe to an invisible pipe buried under the fence under the boundary.
So the cheek to say I have to graft, spend stupid amount of money 3k quote for professional but the council are above the law and they can just ignore their broken private shared pipes.
So my facts and theory is…..by land laws a property owner has to maintain and repair their private drainage pipes. Private drainage artificial channelling should not disperse water into neighbouring properties. Therefore I relay new pipes and connect back to my neighbour on my left to abide the land drainage law and the council should find and fix relay their pipes to abide land drainage laws.
Does that make sense to you ?
Does anyone know of any solicitors that specialise in land drainage flooding damage ?
Should I pursue this out of principle of being enforced that I must fix but they don’t have to ?
The absolute cheek of it is frustrating.
My garden is destroyed. I don’t have any steps. No lawn left.
I have a plan but I can’t stop the water from leaking through the neighbours garden under the fence boundary.
Bought a sumo pump and hose. It helps drain trenches but I see the water leaking through the boundary which builds back up again.
I’m going to reconnect new land drainage kit from the beginning of lawn from the boundary where it’s leaking and back down the lawn back into the iron pipe at the bottom left of lawn. But as said I can’t see the cast iron pipe under the boundary at beginning of the lawn so I can’t connect it back to my neighbour on my right side to their buried pipe.
Council can not see the facts, the evidence but when my neighbour starts digging their garden out they will find the pipe the evidence.
Until then I will leave a length of pipe overhang to connect up to the councils pipe.
Oh also the bottom of my garden is bone dry. So I don’t need to add land drainage everywhere.
You guys probably think I’m neurotic. Well I am a control freak lol I can’t leave problems unresolved. I’ve found the source of the flooding and I will fix it. But I’m not rolling over and letting the outlaw council win without a battle.