Frozen condensate pipe...A discussion...

[johnny2hands]

Evening,

Just to end an argument, ive been trying to find out, just what is wrong with cutting a blocked condensate pipe caused by freezing!

Now, we all know that we should try to run them internally, and if they must run outside, fall as steeply as possible with as thick a pipe diameter as possible and then insulated etc...

But then we also know of the 100,000's of existing installs that went down last winter!

In theory (not that i personally have!), what is wrong with cutting the pipe to relieve the condensate?

I have contacted the Gas Safe Technical department for advice on this and they told me that "the building regs DO NOT state that a condensate drain has to be completely sealed inside a building"...they then also went on to say "that they recently contacted ALL boiler manufacturers to ask if a dry condensate trap could cause POC's to escape along the drain...they all said that within 3 minutes, the traps ON ALL boilers would be sufficiently filled and any escapes negligible and pose no risk"

In the building regs, there is plenty of information with regards to fitting additional siphons etc when running internally to sinks/soil stacks - but alas, no mention of temporarily running condensate into a bucket!

OBVIOUSLY UNLESS MANUFACTURERS INSTRUCTIONS STATE OTHERWISE!

Basically, what is the difference between cutting a pipe, and fitting an air-break between 2 siphons?

I say none.

or am i missing something?!

 

[mickyg]

cut it where ?? what are you talking about?

 

[simond]

I know of two boiler types where cutting the pipe will cause leakage of PoC.

So like all things it is a question of knowing what you are doing.

 

[johnny2hands]

ive heard of engineers cutting the condensate drain underneath the boiler and letting it drip into a bucket to get boilers working again (especially when the boiler is 1/2 floors up and thawing isnt an option)

i wonder if any of the boiler manufacturers would actually give the green light to do this?...

hmmm...

 

[mickyg]

ok i know what your on about now. As a temp solution you mean, I thought you was talking about a permanent fix, in which case it comes down to the manufacturers. ATAG expect an air break as part of the install so they obviously wouldnt mind, and if it freezes the boiler keeps working but the customer gets a pool of water ! Glowworms have a float so they wouldnt mind either. not sure about others

 

[johnny2hands]

I know of two boiler types where cutting the pipe will cause leakage of PoC.

So like all things it is a question of knowing what you are doing.

Thanks Simon, im sure a couple of older models i know of could do the same...but, again, what is the difference between these boilers leaking PoC into a bucket, or out through an air-break?

Gas Safe couldnt clarify it!

 

[johnny2hands]

ok i know what your on about now. As a temp solution you mean, I thought you was talking about a permanent fix, in which case it comes down to the manufacturers. ATAG expect an air break as part of the install so they obviously wouldnt mind, and if it freezes the boiler keeps working but the customer gets a pool of water ! Glowworms have a float so they wouldnt mind either. not sure about others

Sorry, i did mean a temporary fix! I looked through an old Vaillant Ecomax manufacturers instructions, it pretty much advises to run internally unless totally avaoidable, but, they have big 150mm siphons, so surely they would be safe to drain into a bucket...?

but on the other hand, an Ideal Isar has a short siphon (i believe below 35mm), but ive seen these run internally to a sink - with an air break fitting?! should i be switching these off?!! there is nothing in the MI's on this!

it appears to be a bit of a grey area....

 

[mickyg]

I think it depends on the manufacturer. I know BG were classing them as ID at one point, especially the Isar/Icos, possibly under advice from Ideal? I think the wort situation would be with a Band B, some of them like the Heatline vizo don't seem to do alot of condensing ! I've been to a 6month old Betacom with a completely dry trap ! so you wouldnt wanna do it with these. I would be very wary about terminating into a bucket unless it was a very short term fix and the trap was clearly full and the boiler working and condensing.