Get a NAS (to save you losing all your family pics etc)

[festive]

Now. There might be a thread on this already, but im seeing an increasing amount of people coming to me complaining about their hard disks dying and losing their valuable holiday/family pics/video clips be it on their pc or their usb drives...

I stand to be corrected but if you dont want to lose all those thousands of family pics you've built up the last few years + your mp3's etc.

Get yourself a **** NAS soon. For those wondering what im gassing on about, it's a simple device which houses 2disks which mirror the data across both of your disks, which are monitored for health.

Then when one disk dies you're notified by email (if setup correctly!!) and you buy a new disk which in most cases is automatically rebuilt by the unit with the mirror'd data and off you go again.

Hard disks have a nasty habbit of dying anything from 1-5years it's random, check the MTBF data on your disk for more info.
If and when it fails it's a potential expensive job to have it removed and sent off to a data recovery company, that's if it's recoverable. And a pain in the ass in the meantime.

 

[Igorian]

Get yourself a **** NAS soon. For those wondering what im gassing on about, it's a simple device which houses 2disks which mirror the data across both of your disks, which are monitored for health.

Not necessarily. NAS is merely Network Attached Storage. It might have more than one drive and it might support RAID.

Then when one disk dies you're notified by email (if setup correctly!!) and you buy a new disk which in most cases is automatically rebuilt by the unit with the mirror'd data and off you go again.

Misleading and may not be the case at all.

Hard disks have a nasty habbit of dying anything from 1-5years it's random, check the MTBF data on your disk for more info.

This could happen at any time from day 1.

If and when it fails it's a potential expensive job to have it removed and sent off to a data recovery company, that's if it's recoverable. And a pain in the ass in the meantime.

True, so backup to more than one medium if the data is really important. RAID shouldn't really be considered as a main backup option. It's main use is to reduce down times (by introducing redundancy).

 

[LooPrEvil]

We should all have a robust backup procedure that we religously adhere too. BUT WE DONT BOTHER!

Lou.

 

[festive]

Not necessarily. NAS is merely Network Attached Storage. It might have more than one drive and it might support RAID.

If you wasn't being so Pedantic you would correct me and supply a decent example, let me be constructive and add that detail, thanks for correcting me.
CORRECTION

You need to look for a NAS DUO or 2 Bay enclosure and check it comes with 2hardisks the likes of Netgear(ReadyNas DUO, Buffalo(Linkstation Duo) etc are more user friendly or for the more powerful and flexible Qnap(TS 219 or new 219P+)are good starting point.

Misleading and may not be the case at all.

Im not going to waste my time with this answer.

This could happen at any time from day 1.

Yes quite possible ok lets say day 1 - 5years + happy? Not got much work today?

True, so backup to more than one medium if the data is really important. RAID shouldn't really be considered as a main backup option. It's main use is to reduce down times (by introducing redundancy).

Oh i got a 'tick' woo, but how oh backup Oracle do you suggest an easy alternative backup medium for that 30gigs of music and pictures? Multiple DVD's/Blueray? That external USB drive kicking around thats more prone to being knocked onto the floor?

The beauty of a DUAL NAS device is it's doing this all for you at any given moment. Considerably reducing the chance of you losing all your data at the same time, providing you replace the faulty disk of course.

Instead of just correcting me or pointing out my inaccurate statements, lets have some constructive alternatives from you.

 

[Igorian]

If you wasn't being so Pedantic you would correct me and supply a decent example, let me be constructive and add that detail, thanks for correcting me.

It wasn't meant to be a pedantic comment, but your original post could have been interpreted incorrectly by someone who didn't know.

Im not going to waste my time with this answer.

But you have anyway.

Yes quite possible ok lets say day 1 - 5years + happy? Not got much work today?

Almost, and I have a day off today.

Oh i got a 'tick' woo, but how oh backup Oracle do you suggest an easy alternative backup medium for that 30gigs of music and pictures? Multiple DVD's/Blueray? That external USB drive kicking around thats more prone to being knocked onto the floor?

The beauty of a DUAL NAS device is it's doing this all for you at any given moment. Considerably reducing the chance of you losing all your data at the same time, providing you replace the faulty disk of course.

Instead of just correcting me or pointing out my inaccurate statements, lets have some constructive alternatives from you.

Fair point.

If the data was important, I would prefer to keep at least one copy on a device which wasn't permanently online. I still maintain that RAID, as a primary backup method, is not recommended.

 

[dave.m]

Got any prices for the NAS?

Just want to compare with something like an external HD and Microsoft SyncToy which is free and does a very good job of syncing my PC, laptop and the ext HD so I have two copies and the original.
Just needs to be done manually about once a week, or more frequently if you are neurotic abouy HD failures.

 

[digdilem]

I consider my best backup procedure is a big pile of old pata and sata hard drives which are periodically inserted into a £20 usb slot-in caddy, backed up onto, and stored in a fireproof safe. Useful if you have a bunch of old drives that are too small or slow to bother putting in a computer too.

I have a nas too because anything that requires effort will eventually be forgotten, and that's stored in another building - depends how important you think your data is.

Even if we don't all agree on the method, this thread will have caused a few people to go "Oooh, forgotten to back that up for a while, better do it now"

 

[festive]

Got any prices for the NAS?

Just want to compare with something like an external HD and Microsoft SyncToy which is free and does a very good job of syncing my PC, laptop and the ext HD so I have two copies and the original.
Just needs to be done manually about once a week, or more frequently if you are neurotic abouy HD failures.

Hi Dave,

yep sure got a few to look at here, i can only really recommend Qnap as ive owned two of them now, bar the external PSU failing on my first one they've been pretty good now theyve ironed out the initialy buggy firmware.

Netgear RND2150 ReadyNAS Duo 2 Bay (includes 1x)500GB ( 1 x 500GB ) £209 (+27.19 for extra 500gb drive) - Total £236 Total storage 500gb

This supports hot swappable discs (ie if you place a new disk in and as long as it is compatable with the NAS unit it will rebuild the image from the other disc automatically, without having to power down the NAS)

This does mean you would have to purchase a second disc to ensure mirroring of your data across 2 discs.

Cheaper model Qnap:

QNAP TS-210 Turbo All-in-one NAS Server with iSCSI £145 (no drives) (2x500gb drives £54.38) Total £199.38 Total storage 500gb

Dropping down the price range you still have a very solid NAS here but without such features as 'hot swappable' ie being able to swap out the failed disc with the unit powered up. Still easy to resolve, all you would need to do is power down the device, replace the faulty drive and power up the second disc will then be rebuilt. For the pedantic out there refer to your manual, some may require manual intervention requiring you to go into the disk management area and force the NAS to first format and build the disk. If it's marked as hot swappable, you should be fine.

There is one important aspect of using a NAS though and that's having it installed correctly. All the big players come with software which will replicate local directories/files to the remote server. I chose to map network drives (easy to do in Windows/Mac) so all my data is centrally stored there. Its also important to have the notification service configured correctly, so if there is an event such as a disc failing or fan failing you are emailed and are made aware there's a potential situation that needs checking out.

For the hot swappable version take a look at the Qnap 219P which has better CPU/Memory which helps if you're running things like a Squeeze Center (streaming MP3) or Twonky (stream to PS3/Media players or media ready TVs)

Imho there are so many advatangaes of owning a NAS, if stored in the right place, ie somewhere cool they will most probably look after your disks better, as they spin down when not in use. They will alert you of issues (pending correct setup, most have this facility)

Qnap supports a multiple choice of backup alternatives, one touch backup to a separate USB drive/device or from USB device to NAS , remote back up over internet to another NAS/backup software to make another remote image.

The only downside i see is if your house burns down, or it gets stolen in a burglary. Mine is locked away in a safe, cool and relatively fireproof place so im guessing it's far more likely my laptop will be stolen first! I wonder how many people have all their valuable pictures and docs stored on a laptop/pc stolen every year.

Another potential downside is you do have to be slightly PC aware, if you wish to use these wirelessly that requires you to be aware of your WEP/WPA key on your router or aware of how you will install it nearby and connect with cable. Wireless will considerably hamper the transfer of large files. Newer routers support high speed wireless but also high speed LAN so with the correct Cat 5e/6 cables you can achieve a better throughput between NAS and PC / Router.

Reading the Amazon reviews many novices have taken on the install procedure and managed it ok. So don't be put off.

Anyway that's enough from me at the moment, maybe Ignorant or whatever her/his name is has another day off and fancies pulling this to pieces

 

[gbrown100]

I like what festive is doing (thanks for taking the time to post) but I think a more comprehensive strategy needs to be thought out for home users.

Yes backup is an issue but in the days where people now have multiple machines, want to share printers, files etc then there are many options.

I am in the process of writing some guides for home users so they think about the whole picture, not just backup or sharing a printer etc etc. The premise is:

If you have multiple machines you either need to sync the data between machines (this is a backup already!) or you need to store it in one place. If you store it in one place it will either be a PC or NAS. If it is a PC and you have broadband then why not pay mozy.com or similar $4.95 a month to backup all your data? Assuming you have broadband once you get past the initial synchronisation this will not take much time (Insert comments about monthly upload limits here...) If it is a NAS then yes - definately get another USB disk and backup the NAS to that (or use one of your home machines to hold a backup copy of the data). A mirrored NAS gives some protection against hardware failure but remember when a child or parent deletes that all important 25th wedding anniversary photo album the NAS will duly mirror that change to both disks for you! Finally remember, if god forbid your house goes up in smoke you will lose everything... Online backup will help or there is the possibility to use a program that synchronises your data between friends / relatives computers (Crashplan).

Now - whilst the home user is thinking of what is best with regards to storing / sharing data they also need to think about how they all print. If buying a NAS, these can often share a printer for you as well. If not and you have wifi, buy a wireless printer (£55 for an HP in Staples!). If shared from a PC, remember the PC has to be on as well as the printer...

Finally email... What if you want multiple machines to have access to the same email account. Just set it up in Outlook express / Windows Live Mail right? Wrong... By default they remove messages from the server, this means Laptop A will download messages when it in online, Laptop B will download some when it is online - now you have two machines with different subsets of your email account. What do you do? Well webmail is the most obvious answer - account such as Yahoo / hotmail / gmail allow access to webmail which you can get to from any machine with an internet connection. The email never gets downloaded to your computer as you read and reply online. IMAP can also be used as this downloads a copy of all email and synchronises it with the server - i.e. leaves a copy there (but your sent items remain on the computer you sent it from). The downside to this approach can be that you run out of your usage limit (the maximum you are allowed to keep on the server) and you have to start clearing it all down. Last thing I recommend is to never use an ISP's email address. Eventually there will be the day when either you leave the ISP or they get merged with another one and hey presto, you now have 200 people using an address that no longer exists. Using providers like hotmail / yahoo / gmail can help or for very little money you can also go get a domain name of your own and use that with providers such as oneandone.co.uk!

Obviously there is much more detail to be given here, for instance - sharing data between machines can be a pain if you are running mixed versions of Windows on machines etc etc - I just wanted to give people an idea of the things they need to be thinking about these days!

Graham

 

[gbrown100]

I consider my best backup procedure is a big pile of old pata and sata hard drives which are periodically inserted into a £20 usb slot-in caddy, backed up onto, and stored in a fireproof safe. Useful if you have a bunch of old drives that are too small or slow to bother putting in a computer too.

Works for me too but then IT is my job so its easier for me. Alright if you happen to have a fireproof safe as well!

I have a nas too because anything that requires effort will eventually be forgotten, and that's stored in another building - depends how important you think your data is.

I don't have a NAS but I have a Mac Mini as a central repository. It turns itself on at 02:00 in the morning and backs itself up to mozy.com then shuts down again. It also receives all of my data from my office so I have an offsite backup of my company data.

Even if we don't all agree on the method, this thread will have caused a few people to go "Oooh, forgotten to back that up for a while, better do it now"

I agree - in fact there is no "one size fits all" solution, it depends on your technical ability and circumstances. That's where a thread like this is important, someone can read through and find the solution that fits their situation best.

 

[festive]

Good input too Graham, although without being picky i was trying to keep this thread all about how to go about getting a NAS (some valid points on the email/printing for another thread maybe, i use Canon wireless scanner/printer, serves the whole family house perfectly)

A valid point about accidental deletions of files on a NAS, i guess a tad more tricky to recover over the recycle bin or just running software to recover(without removing the drive and connecting to pc/laptop)

And a valid point i never covered about remote backup, definately another option worth considering.

Attempting to synch files between multiple pc's laptops is just unworkable imho, they all have to be on at the same time etc, unless the central device is pushing when it detects the laptop/pc online. I just can't see it workable for anyone lacking discipline in this area er like me!

Out of this the perfect scenario to me anyway is onsite/offsite utilising a mirror'd NAS (2 drives) with mozy.com/NAS for offsite backup.

Im slightly reluctant about todays hackers being able to suck all my personal data off a remote store. But i guess, what's stopping them doing it locally on my own NAS if im not aware of a security flaw myself?

Im actually have a spare NAS now, so im going to leave it at my dads house and backup remotely to there.

 

[gbrown100]

Good input too Graham, although without being picky i was trying to keep this thread all about how to go about getting a NAS

Indeed, I just wanted people to realise that a NAS doesn't solve all backup options and then it kind of snowballed lol

Im actually have a spare NAS now, so im going to leave it at my dads house and backup remotely to there.

On that note, I was just looking at the ReadyNAS Duo for a client. I wondered if purchasing two of them and having one in their office and one at their home would be a good thing. The readynas supports RSYNC replication so it would purely copy the changes to their business data to their home (after the initial sync which can be done with them both plugged into the same network). If a disk in their office NAS dies they replace the disk. If the NAS in the office itself dies then they drive home and pick up the home one and bring it back to the office and carry on working (IP addressing having been sorted). The Icing on the cake would be a USB disk in the office NAS with a proper archiving backup solution on it so that they have a record of a previous weeks / months data and also the NetGear Shadow software taking backups automatically of the PC's onto the NAS for any of those "oops I saved it in the wrong location" moments.

 

[alwest197]

An interesting topic... I simply have two 1tb external hard drives (about £60ish each) to which I take weekly Acronis (about £30ish) full backups.
I rotate the external HDD's and keep one offsite (posh word for leaving it at my mother-in-laws) and never delete the images from my Camera / Camcorder SD cards until I have a copy on both backups. I use the standard Grandfather/father/son method so I can usually go back 5-6 weeks or so.
Now you do have some exposure here as you can only go back to a weekly backup unlike the full raid technology proposed earlier. It works for me but may not suit everyone else.
Its amazing and a story often heard that backups are not taken until after someone has had a massive failure.
I also backup my documents and images to DVD but having 300gb of pictures and video alone its not something I do more than once a year.
My really special images I also copy to another old computer..kept just for that.

Al

 

[Igorian]

Anyway that's enough from me at the moment, maybe Ignorant or whatever her/his name is has another day off and fancies pulling this to pieces

Festive, reading back, and as you don't know me, I accept my post could be taken as a dig. This really wasn't my intention as I only really try to post useful stuff.

The original intention was to point out that RAID isn't an ideal primary backup solution, but I accept that it didn't quite come across that way.

Please accept my apology if I have caused offense.

Ian

 

[digdilem]

If you have multiple machines you either need to sync the data between machines (this is a backup already!) or you need to store it in one place. If you store it in one place it will either be a PC or NAS. If it is a PC and you have broadband then why not pay mozy.com or similar $4.95 a month to backup all your data?

That's a good point - but one reason against it, if you only have a small amount of data - is dropbox do that for free (up to 2gb iirc) and sync it between multiple computers too.

I use it to sync some doc folders for home workers who can't understand the difference between local and remote drives. Works really well. They have a paid one if you want more storage, and there are quite a few others like mozy etc.