Getting a good fixing in crumbly walls and R Kem II?
- Thread starter Keitai
- Start date
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What’s the wall construction ? What are you trying to fix to it?
Really old house. I guess old plaster. Went in easily just on drill mode not hammer.
Put up Coat hangers with just two fixings. One isn't very solid so suspect it will come out. Considered squinting the k rem II in with a gun then pushing a plug back in
You don't fix to plaster , you drill brickwork and then fix.
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I guess the brickwork is behind the crumbly stuff. 100 Yr old house. Brown plugs aren't good in this stuff. Been reading the reviews on the R kem II seems rock hard, if plug comes out will try it
You h
Just drill deeper and use longer screws.
Just drill deeper and use longer screws.
D
Deleted member 174758
I general I'd have to agree with the longer screws approach. Resin anchor systems, such as that sold to the OP by his builders merchants are specifically designed to fix threaded rod into walls, not screws. I doubt that they would be any good for screws if only because the nozzle is probably too big to get down a 7mm hole drilled for a brown plug. If going deeper and using a longer screw doesn't work the OP might want to consider an expansive plug such as the Fischer UX or Fischer Duo Power
I see, it's usually used more for things like thunder bolts. Bolts which screw directly into a wall rather than plastic plugs. Wish the Travis Perkins salesperson had told me that!
D
Deleted member 174758
No. Thunderbolts are designed to anchor into good quality, hard masonry, e.g. stone massive, concrete, medium to hard brick and so forth. They need an accurately drilled hole which needs to be blow out with a blower before they are inserted. We often see them used to anchor scaffolding in place temporarily because they can be easily removed afterwards. They don't require resin and probably wouldn't give a good fix with it as they need a tight hole (so you aren't going to get the bolt seated after you've put resin down the hole) and if you drill a bigger hole the Thunderbolts have insufficient thread to get the best pull-out resistance.
As to Travis-Perkins (and for that matter builders merchants in general), I tend to find that caveat emptor is the order of the day. When you think about it you are asking someone for advice who may never actually have used a lot of this stuff in anger and therefore their practical input as to what's best can be, to be charitable, zero. I also find that the younger they are, the more likely they are to try to sell you anything (on the other hand some of the older guys are actually ex-tradies and can be very knowledgeable)
Resins on the other hand are specifically designed to be used with high tensile coarse threaded steel rod (or better yet purpose-made high tensile studs which have guaranteed strengths which can be included in structural calculations - threaded rod doesn't have such data available and so shouldn't be used for structural works such as fixing load-bearing ledgers to walls). These rods have nice deep, coarse threads which give a lot of surface area as well as something to bite into the cured resin to resist pull-out. All of this is why the big suppliers like Rawl, Spit, Hilti, etc actually supply purpose-made threaded studs for use with their resins (BTW they are not exclusive systems, so Rawl bolts woth with Fischer resins work with Hlti bolts, etc). BTW resin studs are also a lot cheaper than Thunderbolts, at least when bought by the box
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if it's a coat hook then the force will be mostly downwards, not pull-out, and the load light.
You can get good results like this:
(1) drill a hole that penetrates the brick (ignore the depth of plaster which has no strength) enough that both the screw and the plug will be at least an inch into brick. You may end up needing quite a long screw as lime plaster in an old house is often an inch thick.
(2) clean out all dust and loose material with a vac or water jet (which must then have time to dry)
(3) put the nozzle of a builders adhesive of the no-more-nails type deep into the hole, and fill it from the back with no air bubble at the end. Own-brand will do.
(4) insert your plasplug deep into the hole so it is in the brick (you can use the screw, inserted a turn or two, as a handle)
(5) clean off the excess that squeezes out
(5) leave the adhesive overnight to set
(6) screw the fitting into the plug
What the adhesive does, is hold the plug tightly in the brick so it doesn't rotate or come loose, and it transmits the expansion force of the plug to the brick so it stays tight. It is not hard enough to crack the brick when you tighten, and spreads the load. Your bricks have sufficient strength to hold the house up, so it's the fit of the plug that you have a problem with. You will be able to remove the screw and fill the hole one day, when you get bored with your coat hooks.
This method also works with curtain rails, which can carry heavy curtains and withstand daily tugging without coming loose.
The adhesive is not usually warranted waterproof so is suitable for dry conditions.
You can get good results like this:
(1) drill a hole that penetrates the brick (ignore the depth of plaster which has no strength) enough that both the screw and the plug will be at least an inch into brick. You may end up needing quite a long screw as lime plaster in an old house is often an inch thick.
(2) clean out all dust and loose material with a vac or water jet (which must then have time to dry)
(3) put the nozzle of a builders adhesive of the no-more-nails type deep into the hole, and fill it from the back with no air bubble at the end. Own-brand will do.
(4) insert your plasplug deep into the hole so it is in the brick (you can use the screw, inserted a turn or two, as a handle)
(5) clean off the excess that squeezes out
(5) leave the adhesive overnight to set
(6) screw the fitting into the plug
What the adhesive does, is hold the plug tightly in the brick so it doesn't rotate or come loose, and it transmits the expansion force of the plug to the brick so it stays tight. It is not hard enough to crack the brick when you tighten, and spreads the load. Your bricks have sufficient strength to hold the house up, so it's the fit of the plug that you have a problem with. You will be able to remove the screw and fill the hole one day, when you get bored with your coat hooks.
This method also works with curtain rails, which can carry heavy curtains and withstand daily tugging without coming loose.
The adhesive is not usually warranted waterproof so is suitable for dry conditions.
Longer screws , bigger gauge , more brown plugs , can knock a brown plug into a brown plug , sometimes can use multiple to get a fix .
Internal walls are made of muck , is chances is nothing behind the plaster .
Try a few inches the other way .
Fit a rail and fit the hooks to that ?
Get a good fix , overtighten the screws it will bury the body of the hook into the plaster making it loose ) .
Internal walls are made of muck , is chances is nothing behind the plaster .
Try a few inches the other way .
Fit a rail and fit the hooks to that ?
Get a good fix , overtighten the screws it will bury the body of the hook into the plaster making it loose ) .
I think you're right. Drilled not on hammer mode and pushed through easily to nothing so obviously not going into brick. If this is so don't think John's idea will work?
When u say rail, do you mean piece of baton with multiple fixings so it's strong?
I also stupidly didn't drill deep enough for one plug so it was proud of wall. Should I pull it out and put another in?
Yes a nice piece of 3 (+)x 1 timber @ 2ft long would only need 2 good fixing points to hold .
Then can easily fix the hooks with small screws .
If you are lucky , maybe can place the screws to hold the timber , behind the hooks so they are hidden .
Could have a nice edge put on the timber also .
The best way to fit coat hooks is to a timber that has been fixed to the wall .
Searching coat hook rail on google will give you the idea .
2 good fixes will hold 800mm rail + with multiple hooks .
Can use timber to mark , what will be covered once finished and keep all test holes damage to this area so can be covered .
Ideally trying to get fixing points behind where the hooks will be .
Plugs should be set into the masonary so to fix a 22mm timber use a 3&1/2 inch screw x 10s head , use a 6.5mm drill bit with brown plugs if walls crumbly.
Test drill hole with screw to make sure deep enough or set tape marker on drill bit .
Place plug in wall tap flush to plaster, place screw in plug and drive plug into the masonary by tapping the screw with your hamner so the plug goes through the plaster line into the brickwork.
Once plug in masonry , remove screw to place the timber and thread to plug set in wall .
Could probably fix this with red plugs and 8s head screws using a 3/4 inch timber .
Once you found a fix is easy
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Is the wall you're drilling into an internal stud wall?
What you describe sounds like you're drilling through the plaster into a void behind it. Lath and plaster walls are a pain to get a decent fixing into. If you get a screw directly into a lath you might be ok for light weight loads. Otherwise you're going to be into opening up the wall to fix a length of timber between the studs that you can then plaster over and fix into.
What you describe sounds like you're drilling through the plaster into a void behind it. Lath and plaster walls are a pain to get a decent fixing into. If you get a screw directly into a lath you might be ok for light weight loads. Otherwise you're going to be into opening up the wall to fix a length of timber between the studs that you can then plaster over and fix into.
OP said it’s brick .
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