Grade II Listed - what needs LBC?

[ericmark]

I would ask who ever it comes under, I know my daughter worked for the Royle commission at one time, and often it is just one aspect of the building, it often depends on what has already been changed, so for example new stairs fitted in the 80's so now don't care about the stairs any more.

However I have seen them insist it is thatched even when it was never thatched to start with. It depends on the guy who decides what is required.

 

[conny]

My wife rented a grade II listed building before I knew her. When I met her it still had single glazing and oil fired CH.
After I had got to know her, and were getting along, I suggested she asked about having double glazing installed to cut down on heating costs and terrible condensation. She was firmly told no, it was against the rules. So we asked about modest secondary glazing in certain rooms. Again, a firm no. In fact everything we asked about, including removing a diseased tree, was met with a firm refusal. We decided to look for somewhere else to rent, (without telling the agents at this time), but were then suddenly told we would have to move out within 6 weeks as the owner was returning from Oz, and wanted to move back in. Two weeks later the gardener, (a nosy 70 year old neighbour employed by the owner to take care of the gardens, but in reality spy on the tenants), was ostensibly doing a bit of weeding in the back garden when the diseased tree, (a 40'+ conifer gave a sudden creak and came crashing down a few feet from where she had recently been standing. It's roots ripped up 3 fence panels as it fell and the upper branches brushed down the wall of the house. She was very lucky! The house was built in the late 70's early 80's according to next door neighbours. So why it was grade II listed was beyond us. It looked like a modern detached town house on a corner plot. We moved out two weeks later and it was immediately put back on the rental market by the agent with a £300 rent increase to what we were paying.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

(sigh...). As ever, internet discussion doesn't do subtleties. According to your tone, I've expressed doubts about the way listed buildings are dealt with, therefore I want to fit plastic window frames to St Paul's Cathedral. Take a deep breath, stop arguing against strawman ideas.

All I'm suggesting is that the basic interests of the people who live there, and reasonable energy conservation standards should take precedence over preservation. E.g. perhaps it should be a right that everyone is entitled to double glazing and some form of wall and loft insulation. Then the listed building officers have to guide and control to ensure that this is done in a sympathetic way, e.g. wooden window frames or a new sealed unit window behind the original. But all based on the principle that houses are for living in, by the people who own them, and making the place look like a pretty museum is nice but should be secondary to some sort of agreed basic habitation standards.

As things stand, you can live in a house that has damp, cold solid walls and single glazing, and you're not allowed to improve this. Yet, if you build an extension onto that very same house then it has to have a certain width of cavity, insulation all round, double or treble glazing and a whole load of other things. It's contradictory and makes no sense.

Buying a listed building is a massive risk to your money and sanity. You have to realise that it's a big deal, and I get the impression that many don't appreciate this and just think it's something to brag about at dinner parties with no downside.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Whilst it can seem contradictory it does make sense, it's merely preservation, it merely needs a good dialogue to be had between the owner (or whoever is dealing with any proposals) and BC and the CO to find a happy compromise. You're taking a very draconian and naive view on things Ivor. As has now been mentioned several times the listing often only relates to a few certain parts of a property, generally the rest can be updated to increase the living conditions of the occupants provided it's done properly and in a manner that befits the property. But IME most people who live in a listed building buy into that ethos and want to preserve the character of their home.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I know a town where the entire street's listed, all have windows directly onto the pavement, with a very busy road outside. I've walked past their windows deliberately checking them. All have single glazed windows with no secondary glazing. They're lived in but basically uninhabitable by any reasonable measure, and I doubt they've all chosen this as they think it's a great ethos - it's because they're being prohibited from making basic improvements.

I realise there isn't going to be a revolution next week, which is why I'm suggesting that people just stay well away from most listed buildings.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Are the houses not inhabited then?

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Yes, they're inhabited. As are many other sub-standard houses across the country. The difference is that these are all legally required to be unfit for human habitation.

I think one had a begging bowl for contributions to their heating bills.

Is it even possible to rent out a listed house any more? I suspect not, it would fail the energy consumption requirements. But apparently OK for an owner-occupier to live in.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So the uninhabitable houses are inhabited then, thus not uninhabitable at all? You seem to be getting in a right pickle.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

No pickle at all, other than on my cheese sandwich earlier.

I'm going to credit you with the intelligence to understand and assume you're just playing petty boring games with words.

You may have impressed yourself. That's probably about it.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Well you state all these houses are sub-standard and apparently offer dreadful living conditions yet presumably at least some if not all will be owner occupied, which rather puts a dampener on your thoughts.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Yes, I've lost whatever battle you're fighting. Well played, you win the internet war of pedantry.

Meanwhile, nobody other than you actually cares.