Ground floor sat dish and tv aerial

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We're about to just complete a ground floor bedroom and bathroom extension. Rather than deal with the hassle of running messy cables everywhere to the existing sat dish at the front of the house (some 20m) away or connect to the existing aerial on the roof or the amplifier in the front lounge, I thought I would just fit a new one of each on the extension. This will probably be cheaper and cleaner to do.

How easy is it to tune a sat dish to pick up Freesat without the need to call an engineer etc to do it?
 
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Quite easy if you have a clear line of sight for the dish. Freesat doesn't give you as many channels as Freeview, does it? Or do you want the more obscure channels?
 
I'm not too fussed about Sky. Just some free and cultural (or more obscure channels as you put it) channels would suffice. I guess there would be no need to install an aerial as you get the channels 1-5 included.

2x WF100 cables probably enough right one still include one for aerial to future proof it?
 
Forgot to add, does it matter where the dish is positioned (red square) on that wall if it needs to point east?
 

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If the existing dish is on the front of the house that is because it needs to be there to see the satellite. Putting one at the back would therefore not work.

It needs to point approximately south east, the same direction as the existing one.
 
What everyone has said about the direction of the second dish needing to be the same as the first is absolutely correct. The signals for Freesat come from the same satellite as those for Sky. If the 2nd dish isn't able to 'look' in the same direction because the building is in the way then it won't see the satellite it needs to in order to work.

But why Freesat?

I've nothing against Freesat. In fact the picture quality is, IME, marginally better than Freeview. The issue though is it makes life so much more complicated.

You're trying to save the cost of an installer putting the dish in correctly, I understand that. But then you're going to spend more than that on a decent Freesat receiver, and particularly so if you want to record one channel while watching another.

If I understand you correctly then your plan is to install a shotgun (twin) cable and use one for satellite and keep the other for an aerial as a future-proofing plan. That will only allow you to run one Freesat-tuner device. So that would be either a TV with built-in Freesat or an outboard tuner, or a recorder but with some limitations. While it is technically possible to run a recorder in single-feed-mode and even record one channel while watching another, that only works if both channels come from the same LNB state. This is also the reason why you can't loop a single satellite feed through a recorder and then in to a Freesat-equipped TV. Sooner or later the two devices will request channels from two different LNB states and one or other device will lose signal.

Of course, none of this matters if the TV in the extension is already Freesat-capable and only used for occasional viewing. But in that case then why worry about about future-proofing?

The long and short of it is that putting up an aerial is probably a much simpler solution for providing a TV signal. Every modern TV has a Freeview tuner. The signal can be looped through a recorder and allow both devices to work independently without conflict. Lots of TVs now include a USB socket to which you can connect a USB flash drive and do some basic record and playback too.


The description of your existing system included mention of "an amplifier behind the TV".

Are you sure that's an amp and not a power supply for an aerial-mounted amp? It's just that putting a signal amplifier so far away from the aerial is really bad practise. The signal picks up far more noise in the long journey to a remote amp than it would do having the amp closer to the aerial. The exception to this rule is with passive splitters. These are used where the signal is already very strong and clean. As the word "passive" might suggest, this kind of device doesn't use mains power.
 
In my own house I have a dish both at rear and at the front of house, rear one is high and the Sky engineer refused to work on it due to poor access even when they fitted it to start with, the lower on at front does suffer from snow with heavy winters as it builds up on the garage roof in front of it, but it's also easy to clear the snow, at home I gave up with freeview simply because of the continual re-tuning it seemed every other week we had to re-turn.

Mothers house we have both on same box, because the box is not freesat but free to air the program guide is not very good, but on the other hand I can set order of channels so next to ITV3 is ITV3 + 1 which seems to make sense, rather than hunt for the +1 version after some one has called. Although there is a ITV3 + 1 on freeview every time I come to use it I find the + 1 is not there, I have also less problems with isotropic propagation with satellite than with terrestrial.

Because the TV will auto change channels at the appointed time and the sat box just records the channel I use both, and set sat box to record and TV to auto change, but the quality from HD sat and terrestrial seems better than the TV with most programs, however the picture adjustment on the TV does not extend to that coming from the HDMI input so there are times due to TV design where freeview picture is better.

Up stairs we have two Sky boxes, the very old one like the TV down stairs can be set to auto change program, the Sky+HD box only option is to set to record, the picture is better but not due to using satellite it is all down to controls on TV and satellite box. I have freeview on one up stairs TV, we never watch it, simply because the old Sky box has a very good electronic program guide, and the freeview guide is rather hit and miss, also the order of channels is all messed up.

So the selection between satellite and terrestrial is mainly due to equipment used to receive them, even the continual swapping of channels is down to equipment used, some TV's seem to auto update, others need a complex procedure to retune.

As to aiming satellite dish tried with the cheap meter, yes can be done, but last time set up TV on the lawn and watched the bars on the TV, worked far better, OK for those who have expensive boxes which can be set to satellite required, but those cheap boxes are not much good, I have seen my son-in-law with his mates boxes tuning them in to turksat so then they can take them home and line dish to Turkish TV.

Personally now I am lazy, it's a lot of work setting up TV on the lawn, so I pay the few pounds now to get some one with box to set it up, today loads of programs my mother could watch on the SkyHD+ box, but the free to air box only programs were from 1950's that interested her, but those were only on the free to air satellite, there was nothing on the freeview. But she is 92 so 1950's movies suit her.
 
In my own house I have a dish both at rear and at the front of house, rear one is high and the Sky engineer refused to work on it due to poor access even when they fitted it to start with,

Sky do not use engineers for this. They are installers at best. All their engineers are in Osterley.
 
Lucid,

Many thanks for the detailed reply. You make some valid comments.

The bedroom is for my partially disabled father who wants to watch some of the Asian and cultural channels that are available on Freesat. I figured buying a Freesat enabled TV means less wires and boxes around in an area of the bedroom that will already be short of space for his disability needs. Furthermore, as he becomes more confused, I wanted to avoid two remotes and the need to explain 100 times that he has to press the Sky button on the remote to switch channels because someone has accidentally pressed the TV mode button on the sky remote and nothing changes. I also like the idea of him being able to move up or down a channel with ease since unlike scart, the TV does not automatically switch to HDMI (I can remember what that function is called when the TV switches automatically).

He wont be recording anything.
 
For my mother I used the Flipper remote control I found with the Icecrypt STC3250CCIHD free to air satellite and terrestrial both can be viewed without actually doing anything to swap between satellite and terrestrial so I hid all channels she would not want, and she could flick channel to channel until she found one she wanted to watch.
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there is a slide where you can assess extra controls but she never slides that down.

It was the redeeming feature of the Icecrypt STC3250CCIHD that it was seamless between satellite and terrestrial, the electronic program guide on it is rubbish, today my mother has us to select programs, she no longer uses the remote. However a year ago it was a god send.
 
To your original question- yes it is relatively easy to align a satellite dish provided that where it is mounted can see the satellite. The further North you are the bigger the dish you need & the nearer the horizon the thing needs to see (oops, just checked & your post says London so a wee dish will do). Most Freesat receivers (and probably a Freesat telly) have built-in signal strength stuff for fine tuning but a meter (cost about £8) makes the initial alignment much easier.

If you've got an Android smartphone there's an app called Satfinder- load it up & it superimposes the satellites on the camera screen. Real easy way to do a rough check for locating your dish. Bin it once you've finished with it cos it throws up nag screens every so often about registering/upgrading.
 
I made the mistake of previously purchasing a second hand Sky+ HD box thinking that the HD would be available for free on the free to air view channels (well the circa. £15 Sky card for free channels anyway). I need to now buy a second box for this extension in question and dont want to make the same mistake.

No recordings will be made and HD probably not needed. What type of cheap second hand box off ebay should I be looking for if those of you here are not recommending Freesat? I want something small, quiet and does not consume more energy than is needed (compared with the Sky+ box which I can hear the HD whizzing when I'm not even using any recording function).

Thanks.
 
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It works like any other free to air satellite receiver and will pick up any free to air channels from the satellite the dish is pointed to. It does not need a card but nor does a sky box for free to air channels.

It also has diseqc switching so can connect to several dishes via a diseqc switch.

The instruction manual is rather poor, so you may struggle setting it up if you are not experienced.
 

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