Grundfos Home Boster Pump

M

morrismini

Aaahhh, now I see where you're coming from with the pipe stat. Still think a decent whole house pump would achieve the effect of getting hot water to the taps more quickly without the loop though, but you seem set on doing this and nobody's going to change your mind so maybe we should just end the discussion here...

Muggles, what you are saying that high pressure pump on a normal draw-off will bring DHW faster as it will push a hell of alot of water through the tap before hot water get there.

What I am saying is that the Home Booster pump will immediately pump water fast around the loop. Fast to the tee off of the open tap. That will happen despite you thinking it will not.
 
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Yes, but your stated primary aim is to decrease the amount of time it takes for the hot water to get to the taps, and the whole house pump would achieve this. It would push out all the cold first, but then you'd get quite a bit of cold coming out of the open tap on your loop system as well.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that when the pump is turned off by the pipe stat the flow will be dramatically reduced from what you have now due to the increased flow resistance through the stationary pump.
 
M

morrismini

Yes, but your stated primary aim is to decrease the amount of time it takes for the hot water to get to the taps, and the whole house pump would achieve this. It would push out all the cold first, but then you'd get quite a bit of cold coming out of the open tap on your loop system as well.

The prime aim of any secondary loop is reduced time waiting for DHW at the tap. That goes without saying. This idea will reduce energy mused heating a loop and electricity used as the pump will only be used when needed.

Talking this through here, I have adjusted my idea is to have this cheap pump on the return from the cylinder with the flow switch off, on a 22m loop. The pipe stat will be replaced by an infra red-detector covering the basin. If someone in the kitchen wants DHW the pump doesn't cut in. It only cuts in when someone is at the furthest point of the draw-off pipe. That will solve all problems, save water, energy in heat and electricity. The pump should last longer as it only operates when needed.
 
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Wow it gets more convoluted by the minute. Well good luck to you, will be interested to hear how well it works... incidentally what's going to make the pump come on now the flow switch is deactivated?
 
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Errm... A machine that runs constantly will last longer than a machine that stops and starts.... These pumps have a capacitor to start them so every start will use a considerable amount of energy.... have you done the maths on your energy/ electricity saving theories? Any savings that you do make will be negligable if any from an over complicated system.... Why not simply use 10mm pipe to supply wash basins.. you'd be amazed at how quickly the hot water would come through, using your pump to simply presurise the hot water... Simples, squeek
 
M

morrismini

Wow it gets more convoluted by the minute. Well good luck to you, will be interested to hear how well it works... incidentally

Where is that convoluted? One cheap pump and a simple infra-red detector? Infra-red detectors are cheap enough and if ships can use them then they can work in houses as well.

what's going to make the pump come on now the flow switch is deactivated?

Don't some of you people ever read? The infra-red detector switches the pump. It is simple. I asked a simple question about the size of cylinder tapping and it went to two pages.
 
M

morrismini

Errm... A machine that runs constantly will last longer than a machine that stops and starts.... These pumps have a capacitor to start them so every start will use a considerable amount of energy....

The Comfort pumps stop and start and I assume they knew one of these would do the same. As the infra-red detector is only in the furthest bathroom it will not switch on that much at all.

have you done the maths on your energy/ electricity saving theories? Any savings that you do make will be negligable if any from an over complicated system....

Another one who doesn't read. A pump and an infra-red detectors is all it is. :) The maths. No need to. Something that only runs occasionally will save money and the pumps is far cheaper than a Comfort pump.

Why not simply use 10mm pipe to supply wash basins.. you'd be amazed at how quickly the hot water would come through, using your pump to simply presurise the hot water... Simples, squeek

I intend to have 10mm or 12mm from the tees on the 22mm loop to basins. I know that 15mm is way oversized in many installations. Look at those in Spain. They don't have 15mm all over and it all works well.

You suggestion, with a loop, has merit, it falls down when filling a bath as it will not deliver the volume through small bore pipes.
 
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:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: ... You'd be stuffed in a power cut...

I would say that ships have a continuous loop with a pump that runs continuously and the outlets open and closed by IR taps and flush valves... The saving of energy is not a major concern on a ship but saving water is... Don't forget that there is a big oil burning engine churning out masses of heat as a waste product as it chugs its way accross the sea loaded with boxes of cheap PIR devices and pipe 'stats ;)
 
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Sooo...the IR detector presumably switches the pump on when it detects cold and off when it detects heat yeah? So what's to stop it switching the pump on if the room gets a bit chilly? Or even if it's at a vaguely normal temperature?

You still haven't addressed the issue of having reduced flow due to high resistance through the pump when it's turned off, an issue that will be vastly exacerbated by the use of 10mm pipe on the system you're suggesting.

As for the question about the size of the cyinder tapping, never saw that one :S
 
M

morrismini

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: ... You'd be stuffed in a power cut...

It will not. It will still work. water will come out of the taps.

I would say that ships have a continuous loop with a pump that runs continuously and the outlets open and closed by IR taps and flush valves... The saving of energy is not a major concern on a ship but saving water is... Don't forget that there is a big oil burning engine churning out masses of heat as a waste product as it chugs its way accross the sea loaded with boxes of cheap PIR devices and pipe 'stats ;)

The point I was emphasising is that ships use infra-red detectors in plumbing.
 
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:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: ... You'd be stuffed in a power cut...

It will not. It will still work. water will come out of the taps.

Very slowly

I would say that ships have a continuous loop with a pump that runs continuously and the outlets open and closed by IR taps and flush valves... The saving of energy is not a major concern on a ship but saving water is... Don't forget that there is a big oil burning engine churning out masses of heat as a waste product as it chugs its way accross the sea loaded with boxes of cheap PIR devices and pipe 'stats ;)

The point I was emphasising is that ships use infra-red detectors in plumbing.

For an entirely different application to the one you're suggesting
 
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Why look at Spain? we use 10 mm to feed the smaller requirements of hand basins... but you will need a decent pressure, so your pump should not switch off surly? otherwise all you will get once your pump cuts out is a lame trickle... By the same token 15mm may well be too small for your baths as you will be relying on gravity... since your pump will almost never run...

Lets hope that your plumbing isn't as dire as Spanish plumbing eh? otherwise your house may become a ship... :eek:
 
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For what it's worth I don't think your allowed to install a booster pump going into a standard copper cylinder.
 
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For what it's worth I don't think your allowed to install a booster pump going into a standard copper cylinder.

You can if you connect the cylinder to the light switch... :p ... Via a suitable PIR of course
 
M

morrismini

For what it's worth I don't think your allowed to install a booster pump going into a standard copper cylinder.

It's an unvented cylinder with stuff taken off. If the loop is 22mm it will not boost pressure much anyhow. It will give more flow than pressure. As the cylinder is vented there will be little problem using a good copper cylinder.
 

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