Hall/landing issue when new FB installed

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I have had a new fuse box fitted which is split into 2 parts, A and B. The downstairs sockets and upstairs lights are in A and the upstairs sockets and downstairs lights in B. The idea is that if one side drops (for whatever reason), the lights are still available or a socket for a lamp. The box will not commission because the landing light has been incorrectly wired when the house was built whereby the neutral for the landing light has been ‘knicked’ from the upstairs lighting ring. The landing rose has a neutral from the ring with the associated live parked in the loop group in isolation (so it’s the end of the ring). There is a single live (from the landing switch common?) in the switch group. I assume then that a standard 2 +e joins the L1 and L2 between the hall and landing switches and the live comes off the downstairs ring into the hall switch common. The box is ‘intelligent’ (it drops 12v on the ring when switched off) so dislikes the commoning between A and B. The electrician involved disabled the landing light promising to return and fix it but unfortunately he had a heart attack shortly after and is now decommissioned. We have been using night lights ever since so it has not been urgent per se. I can do basic electrics such as fused spurs, doubling sockets, etc. but I realise less and less is allowed e.g. no horizontal runs! Can it be easily fixed, or will the lights all have to be moved to one side which I assume will mean getting a man in.
 
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Not much of an electrician then.

He could have - you can - just put both lighting circuits on the same RCD side, even in the same MCB, until the problem is rectified.
The Neutral will have to be moved to the other neutral bar as well.


Rectifying it will require another conductor(wire) between the two switches, i.e. replacing the twin & earth with three-core and earth.


I do not understand the reference to 'intelligent box'.
 
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I have a colleague who had some kitchen work done, involving a number of sockets above a new work surface not far apart from each other. The 'electrician' insisted that he had to channel up the wall for each socket instead of a very simple short horizontal run. He too said it was 'no longer allowed'. I despair sometimes.
 
I suppose I should say:

Rectifying it will require another conductor(wire) between the two switches, i.e. replacing the twin & earth with three-core and earth.
That assumes twin and earth has been used from landing light to landing switch.


Depending on the locations, other methods might be:

Another conductor from consumer unit downstairs light neutral bar to landing light for Neutral, or
another conductor from consumer unit upstairs light MCB to downstairs switch for Line(live).
 
putting lights onto the same RCD is a good way to have working lights.
Put them on the same RCD as upstairs sockets
 
The hall switch is 2 gang, one for the hall light and one for the landing. I suspect there was single live feed, pcossibly from the live common of the hall switch, into the hall landing switch common. L1 and L2 are then joined via a standard 2 + e to the landing switch L1 and L2. The common is then single stranded to the switch pair in the rose with the negative provided from the end of the upstairs lighting ring. The live from the ring is parked in the loop cluster in isolation because it is the end of the ring. I have had to change this to overcome the problem. The landing switch is also 2 gang to provide a switch for the bathroom lights. I have taken a live feed from this to replace the one(s) coming up the stairs. As both L and N are now from the same side of the fb, the problem is resolved (but we have no control of the landing light from the hall). I would also have removed the live feed from the hall landing switch common so no power is being sent up the stairs.
I said intelligent because it has logic which is how it detects that there is a feed which is split between the A side and the B. It also drops 12v on the wires when any part of the box is off which can be a pain as any wires that touch during wiring changes cause the whole side of the box to trip. And I have read somewhere that horizontal runs are no longer allowed presumably because people keep sticking nails in them when they hang pictures,etc. (although they could do this just as easily with verticals). Thanks for your feedback - a man will be coming soon.
 
lighting circuits aren't rings.

You didn't need to make all them changes? Just put the 2 mcb's on the same RCD side.
Make sure when you turn one light mcb off, some lights don't work. i.e you haven't linked the MCBs
 
So circuits don't fuse any more cause they don't have fuses they have circuit breakers. Then they should be called circuit breaker boxes (CBBs). And why are contacts designated as L and N if there is no N.
 
There are kinetic light switches, the moving of the switch produces enough power to send a radio signal to the master, so you can have two way switching without any cables between the switches, I think around £60.

Following the regulations it has never been permitted to borrow a neutral (in real terms it is the line which is borrowed) however in the 70's and 80's people started using down lights and the ceiling rose is used as a junction box, and rated 5 or 6 amp, so lighting circuits were limited to 5 amp (fuse) or 6 amp (MCB) so people started to split the lighting into two circuits, often they did not realise by doing this they had produced a borrowed neutral.

As we started to use RCD protection we started to find these borrowed neutrals, although putting both lights on the same RCD will stop them tripping, the regulations require them to be on the same circuit, so must also be on the same MCB.

It has come up many times about the problem that if a fault trips a RCD feeding a socket, you don't really want to also be plunged into darkness, however for many years houses with TT supplies had a single 100 mA RCD, and before that a single ELCB-v and caravans and boats still have a single RCD. But with AC there is always some capacitance and inductive linking, so there is always some leakage to earth, from previous posts it seems this is limited to 9 mA, however personally I have never measured the leakage, I don't have a clamp on meter that will measure 1 mA so all I have done is test with an insulation tester at 500 volt DC, so that capacitance and inductive linking has never been measured.

So as the designer, I simply put every circuit on its own RCD by fitting all RCBO's, (RCD and MCB combined) but what we want is if a socket circuit has a fault, we can continue to use the home, we don't need some one to fix it quick as the freezer is defrosting we can use an extension lead to keep things running, clearly don't really want extension leads running up or down the stairs, so home should be split front/back or side to side rather than upstairs down stairs, but as long as the cooker supply and kitchen supply are on a different RCD it is not really a problem, or of course kitchen ring and ring for rest of that floor on a different RCD.

However if the lights are split up/down, and the sockets split front back, then only way is really three RCD's. Be it lights on a RCBO or sockets on a RCBO to do all we want for the design some way we need three RCD's.

So in other words if you have not got a high integrity consumer unit, some how some way you need to compromise, and OK we are working on a budget, I may have spent £250 on my consumer unit plus fitting, but not everyone can afford to do that. So putting all lights on the same MCB will cure you problem, it is not ideal, but with only 2 RCD's there is no ideal fix anyway. If it is a high integrity board then put lights on a RCBO, if not the only question is do you put lights with upstairs or down stairs, personally I would put with up stairs.

I am not saying as wired your house is wrong, what I am saying it is a compromise, it has been done on a budget, so accept done on a budget and combine all lights on one circuit, or as said to start with use kinetic switches.

Yes it would be better if you do get a fault on lights not to loose them all, but if that is really a problem, then fit emergency lights. I have a rechargeable torch at top of stairs, so if there is a general power cut, it lights the stairs. It does not matter how many circuits you have, a general power cut and still no lights.

I agree this should be explained before the consumer unit is fitted, maybe it was, but all lights on one MCB with LED lighting is not really a problem, unlikely today to use over 6 amp on lights.
 
If I want to move the upstairs lights to the same side (A) of the CU, can I do that with just the CU isolated or should I drop the main switch just to be on the safe side.
 

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