Heating upgrade

[MikeJM]

Recently moved and I`m looking to update our heating system.
Looking for advice as to what we can get without spending a fortune.
Just my wife and I in a three bed bungalow and we have a basic gravity fed system/pump for the rads/room stat/hw cylinder. No programmer or cylinder thermostat.
Boiler is a Worcester Danesmoor oil fired which is only a few years old and we have a f & e tank in the loft.
All we want is to have a programmer fitted and motorised valve so we can run the ch independant of the dhw. We have also got a small room/loft conversion we would like to put a rad in.
Every "heating engineer" we have got in for quotes and advice (around ten of them) has given us different advice as to what can and cannot be done, in particular with the room in the loft, and we are now more confused than before.

Any advice welcomed please.

 

[Agile]

I am sorry you were not happy with the heating engineers.

Presumably they came free because they were short of work. That tends to attract the worst!

We never go anywhere free as that helps us to keep out prices low. We give budgetary prices over the phone.

The first thing is to spend money on insulation. Loft and cavity wall! that gives very good return on the capital. TRVs in rooms little used.

If you want a rad in the loft then you will probably have to convert to a sealed system, about £150 if the rads and valves are i n good condition.

We charge about £240 to fit full controls to a gravity system.

Closing thick curtains helps to keep heat losses down.

Tony

 

[MikeJM]

Tony
Thanks for reply. The property has insulation you mention although I intend to add to the loft insulation as at the moment it is only 50mm or so thick.
The cost you mention is a lot less than any of the quotes we have had, less than half of the lowest. Several of the `engineers` didnt even bother to reply with a quote.
It seems that in this part of the country there is an abundance of work and they can pick and choose the work they want. We have had the same problem with all trades we have asked for quotes in doing up our bungalow since we moved to Cornwall from Bedfordshire earlier this year. They are also more laid back in general though.
You sound as though you know what you are talking about and would welcome a formal quote but unfortunately you`re not in our part of the country.
The consensus from the best of the quotes was that we would need a sealed system to service an upstairs rad.
Are there any maintanance differences with a sealed system/expansion tank? Somewhere I recall that installation shoud be carried out by a registered person and is it notifiable?
Thanks
Mike

 

[Terrywookfit]

If you want a rad in the loft then you will probably have to convert to a sealed system, about £150 if the rads and valves are i n good condition.

We charge about £240 to fit full controls to a gravity system.
Tony

You are very reasonable in your prices Tony!

I understand full controls to a gravity system to mean independant timed and temperature control which entails fitting a 28mm motorised valve with changeover contacts and also a cylinder stat!!

It is not possible to have gravity circulation on a sealed system so your price of £390.00 cannot possibly be accurate !!! (Even if your employees are Eastern Europeans)!!!

 

[Agile]

You are very reasonable in your prices Tony!

I understand full controls to a gravity system to mean independant timed and temperature control which entails fitting a 28mm motorised valve with changeover contacts and also a cylinder stat!!

It is not possible to have gravity circulation on a sealed system so your price of £390.00 cannot possibly be accurate !!! (Even if your employees are Eastern Europeans)!!!

Its not a big problem to convert to full controls. A controls pack is about £80 and its all fitted in 22 mm. Should take about 3-4 hours.

Converting to sealed should take about 1-2 hours with the EXV and filling loop replacing the F&E tank in the accessible loft.

Tony

 

[JohnD]

OOI, what is the min height, in an unsealed system, of the F&E above highest rad?

I was wondering if the F&E could be raised (say, on a platform on the chimney) and a lowish skirting rad fitted?

I am just a householder.

 

[Agile]

It all depends on the system layout but generally it can work if the F&E tank is at least 1000 mm above the top of the highest radiator.

Tony

 

[MikeJM]

Thanks for the info. Only got about 400mm from bottom of tank and top of where the rad would be. Looked at our tank and loft and no room to raise the tank there.
The expansion cylinder/sealed system seems to be the answer but are there any problems assosciated with these and what if any is the maintenance for them? ie how do you add inhibitor etc if the system is sealed.
Mike

 

[gas4you]

Every "heating engineer" we have got in for quotes and advice (around ten of them) has given us different advice as to what can and cannot be done, in particular with the room in the loft, and we are now more confused than before.

10 QUOTES The norm is 3, if I knew a prospective customer had 9 others round first I wouldn't bother to quote.

You must be really distrusting of the heating profession

 

[MikeJM]

Hi Dave
Thanks for reply.
The 10 quotes were not actually quotes received but visits to estimate the cost for a quote.
10 came about after 6 of the tradesmen didnt even bother to reply with a quote, just looked at the system as it is and said they would get back to me. They mostly had differing views on how to update the system and what could and couldnt be done with out going into a new boiler and big bucks.
As I said we moved into our bungalow in January this year knowing it needed work doing in different "trade" disciplines. Not a problem we thought (as long as their prices were reasonable) but we have invited general builders, electricians, general plumbers and heating engineers, some of them from the `oftec` website list of approved engineers to quote for different work but in general they mostly dont reply at all.
I would welcome info from a `pro` as to the ins and outs of a sealed /expansion tank system as this is the one we are going for.
Thanks for any info.
Mike

 

[Agile]

We never go anywhere free as that helps us to keep out prices low. We give budgetary prices over the phone.

Its just not possible to go free to give free advice because some householders call so many people out. The best people dont go free and the worst rush round because they are hungry for work or are going to quote a high price.

We dont go free and can thus quote lower prices as we dont waste hours giving free advice.

Tony

 

[Balenza]

Agile wrote

Its just not possible to go free to give free advice

So when you dispence with your advice to the potential customer you then hand them a bill ?.
Id like to see the look on their faces.
And if you are going to tell me you make them aware of this before the visit then me thinks you wouldn't be visiting at all.
So how is it that you have so much free time to give advice for free over an internet forum ?.

 

[megawatt]

If you charged for quotes around these parts Tony ... You'd starve

 

[sambotc]

Where abouts in cornwall are you?

Sam

 

[MikeJM]

Hi Sam
Only logged on tonight & picked up your message.
We are in Camborne, why do you ask?
Mike