Help/Advice Habitable Loft Room

[scruffybiker]

Hello.

I am after some advice on how to strengthen our loft floor.

Now I must stress our intentions are not to use this as a bedroom but as an extra habitable room. We were going to get a proper loft conversion but it just doesn't seem possible due to head height. This has been confirmed by a few conversion companies. And having a dormer isn't what we want or can afford at all.

The problem is the ceiling joists dont sit onto the wall plate but a bit above it and they are only nailed into the rafters. How can I make this connection stronger? Coach bolts? The joists are 2x4 and they span 3 meters. I was going to double up the joists to strengthen the floor. Is this ok?

If so. Can you put a staircase in without legal problems?

Thanks

 

[bernardgreen]

This has been confirmed by a few conversion companies.

If they say it can't be done then listen to them.

 

[scruffybiker]

I'll have to forget about it

 

[Ian H]

Sounds like you would have to lower the bedroom ceilings to gain head night.

 

[scruffybiker]

Sounds like you would have to lower the bedroom ceilings to gain head night.

Correct but even that is not possible as the ceilings are fairly low already.

 

[Doggit]

If you're only going to use it as a habitable room, then you can ignore the head room regulations. You could put a coach bolt through the junction of the joist/rafters, but doubling up the joists won't give you a lot more strength. You need to drop a 3x4 beam into the junction of the joist and rafters, and nail that into both, then hang joist hangers off of it, and then run a new joists alongside the existing ones. You'd need to extend the loft hatch (and strengthen the adjoining joist - get a professional to do this), and you can then use a loftsaver stairs to get access to the loft, and there should be no problems.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Actually there is no minimum height for a ceiling except above a stair, nevertheless once you fit a permanent stair it will be deemed to be a loft conversion and a non compliant one unless you do it under building regs.

 

[scruffybiker]

If you're only going to use it as a habitable room, then you can ignore the head room regulations. You could put a coach bolt through the junction of the joist/rafters, but doubling up the joists won't give you a lot more strength. You need to drop a 3x4 beam into the junction of the joist and rafters, and nail that into both, then hang joist hangers off of it, and then run a new joists alongside the existing ones. You'd need to extend the loft hatch (and strengthen the adjoining joist - get a professional to do this), and you can then use a loftsaver stairs to get access to the loft, and there should be no problems.

Thanks for that! Just what I needed

 

[scruffybiker]

Actually there is no minimum height for a ceiling except above a stair, nevertheless once you fit a permanent stair it will be deemed to be a loft conversion and a non compliant one unless you do it under building regs.

Thanks for making me aware about the stairs I wasn't sure as I've read conflicting things

 

[Doggit]

But as it's only being used as a habitable room, and building regs aren't being involved, the issue of how the stairs are done become a bit of a mute point, so who's going to be bothered that it's deemed to be a loft conversion. A lot of houses are sold as having a useable loft room that can't be classified as a bedroom etc, but nothing more happens, so is there really a problem if he fits a permanent set of stairs such as a spacesaver.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

so is there really a problem if he fits a permanent set of stairs such as a spacesaver.

Well when the next occupants begin using it as a playroom for little Johnny and there's a fire and he dies of smoke inhalation, not forgetting that the house insurance will be invalid then I guess that's the next occupants problem. But of course fire's always happen to someone else. And not to mention savvy minded buyers may well be put off by some half arsed unapproved works to the loft.

 

[Doggit]

If he's bent on making it a useable room, then that's his choice; we're just trying to help him do it safely, so really (and you've made a very good point over this) we should be advising him to fit a fire door at the bottom of the stairs, and fitting a linked smoke alarm.

And why does everyone use poor little Johnny as an example, what's the poor little so and so done to deserve all this.

 

[Ian H]

Johnny was the unwanted child. Named to remind his dad to put a bag on it

 

[geraldthehamster]

I think there's a false distinction being made, in the original post. If the loft is being made into a "habitable room", then building regulations apply. It makes no difference whether you intend to put a bed in it.

Cheers
Richard

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Yes and it's the permanent stair that infers the habitable bit.