Help! Do I have major problems?

[gus4778]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice about my electrics! I had a lot of work done to my house a couple of years back, including wiring of a new extension, rewiring of part of the main house etc and a new consumer unit. This was all done by a NAPIT registered bloke recommended by the builders, signed off etc, and we have had no problems with the electrics since.

I am in the process of renovating a bedroom, and wanted to move some sockets, but wasn't sure of how they'd wired the thing up (this was not part of the work that was done a couple of years back) so called an electrician in. I couldn't get in touch with the previous electrician I used (he might have retired) so called a local firm out of the yellow pages (NICEIC) - 'It's not a big job' I thought!

Anyway, this firm recommended I have the upstairs circuits tested which I did - no problems there, and they sorted the sockets out for me. However, they then told me that there was a problem with the consumer unit because it wasn't big enough and some of the circuits are doubled up on the board - they are recommending that I have the whole house tested (at £300+VAT) and probably a new consumer unit, plus any other remedial work done because 'if the CU is like that who knows what else we'll find!'.

So my questions are:

Is this setup a problem? Should I be worried?

Obviously I am concerned that either the old electrician hasn't done the job properly, or that the new firm are trying to squeeze me for more cash for stuff that doesn't need doing. I hate using people I don't know for exactly this reason, but figured this was only a small job!

I'd be grateful for any advice anyone can offer!

Cheers,

Gus

 

[Weavertronix]

I don't know if there's anything wrong with your electrics because I haven't seen your electrics.

Just because someone has told you you need a new consumer unit doesn't automatically mean he's out to rip you off, despite what Matt Alright BBC rogue traders might tell you.

 

[electronicsuk]

If you can take a picture of your consumer unit with the cover on, then if you feel confident to do so turn off the main isolator switch and safely remove the cover to take some pictures of the inside, you can post them here for us to take a look at. It's hard to advise on what we can't see.

P.S. The thick wires into the main isolator will be live even when it's in the off position, so treat everything in the consumer unit as it it were live when the cover is off.

 

[wingcoax]

Two years ago would have been under"PART P" so the new wiring should be ok, as should the old, you should always get at least three quotes. Even NICEIC members can try it on.

 

[gus4778]

If you can take a picture of your consumer unit with the cover on, then if you feel confident to do so turn off the main isolator switch and safely remove the cover to take some pictures of the inside, you can post them here for us to take a look at. It's hard to advise on what we can't see.

P.S. The thick wires into the main isolator will be live even when it's in the off position, so treat everything in the consumer unit as it it were live when the cover is off.

Thanks for that. I will get some photos up when I get the chance.

I guess what I was wondering if it is OK to wire two circuits to one MCB (I think they may be lighting circuits) or if it is an absolute no-no under any circumstances.

Weavertronix - Thanks for your input. Unfortunately the fact that I have essentially got one certified installation from one registered electrician, which I am now being told is a bit dodgy by a different registered electrician makes me think that something is not quite right (Matt Alright or no Matt Alright!) - they can't both be right can they?

Assuming they are not, someone along the line somewhere has been economical with the truth, wouldn't you say?

Who do I believe?

 

[JB666]

Gonna get shouted at by someone for saying this but Hell, who cares?

As the original spark was Napit (National Associaction of Professional Inspectors & Testers) registered you can be assured he was FULLY QUALIFIED and insured for the work involved. All Napit registered sparks are fully qualified and up to date with current standards or they're not accepted as members (new members are given a 12month period to gain the inspectors cert but are still experienced and qualified to a high standard).

With the NICEIC, only one member of a company/contractors may hold the relevant qualifications and sign off/test/commission other (non qualified) employees work. Great set up - not!

Rant over.

As for your concerns regarding more than than one circuit contained in one MCB, tis quite normal to have more than one especially after additional works have been added to an existing system. As long as the full load is less than the rating of the MCB, the cabling is of relevant size etc - no problem.

A pic of the CCU would be good

 

[JACKC]

To have two wires in a mcb for lighting circuit is quite normal, lighting gets added to when extension are being built and quite often the easiest way is to take the supply from the mcb in the consumer unit if there is no room to add another mcb. This saves ripping up floorboards / carpets etc. to look for the lighting circuit to break into. As your original NAPIT spark has tested and certified the installation then I would not be concerned as he would have done all the calcs for the extra load on the lighting circuit. Sounds to me like the NIC spark is trying for a little extra work. Don't worry about it and keep your cash for the Mrs Christmas present.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Mrs Christmas

 

[sparky1505]

Firstly well done with going with an NICE contractor for your own peace of mind on getting it right this time .
Secondly Is you current fuse box a 16 ed fuse box ? if so is the NICE contractor wanting to change the fuse box to a 17 ed box to provide rcd protection to the modified circuits? If so then it may be a cheaper option to provide rcd protection by using rcbo`s.
Finaly if your NICE contractor is wanting to change your fuse box for a genuine reason it is always recommended to do a periodic inspection first to avoid any nuisance tripping with the new box.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

Mrs Christmas

That was really helpful.

 

[sparky1505]

__________________
Think thats HIS Christmas present

 

[flyingsparks]

I know of a napit bloke who is as rough as a badgers you know what. Doesn't bother with main bonding, left a fuseboard cover off as he couldn't get it to fit and fits non ip rated sockets in agricultureal buildings. He was kicked out the niceic after one year...

 

[MalcofArabia]

Hi everyone,

I need some advice about my electrics! I had a lot of work done to my house a couple of years back, including wiring of a new extension, rewiring of part of the main house etc and a new consumer unit. This was all done by a NAPIT registered bloke recommended by the builders, signed off etc, and we have had no problems with the electrics since.

I am in the process of renovating a bedroom, and wanted to move some sockets, but wasn't sure of how they'd wired the thing up (this was not part of the work that was done a couple of years back) so called an electrician in. I couldn't get in touch with the previous electrician I used (he might have retired) so called a local firm out of the yellow pages (NICEIC) - 'It's not a big job' I thought!

Anyway, this firm recommended I have the upstairs circuits tested which I did - no problems there, and they sorted the sockets out for me. However, they then told me that there was a problem with the consumer unit because it wasn't big enough and some of the circuits are doubled up on the board - they are recommending that I have the whole house tested (at £300+VAT) and probably a new consumer unit, plus any other remedial work done because 'if the CU is like that who knows what else we'll find!'.

So my questions are:

Is this setup a problem? Should I be worried?

Obviously I am concerned that either the old electrician hasn't done the job properly, or that the new firm are trying to squeeze me for more cash for stuff that doesn't need doing. I hate using people I don't know for exactly this reason, but figured this was only a small job!

I'd be grateful for any advice anyone can offer!

Cheers,

Gus

If that is correct then the NICEIC electrician is quite correct as this contravines regulation 314.4

One thing to use a MCB to spur of an existing circuit, but quite different if there is one MCB feeding 2 final circuits. So before we accuse this guy of trying it on perhaps he discovered that there is indeed 2 final circuits in one protection device.

IMO even spuring off an MCB is bad practice I hate to see 2 cable in just one protection device, except for ring final circuits, though I cede that it is just my opinion and is regarded as some as common practice.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

As it gets pointed out here so often, an MCB can't feed two different circuits, it's semantically impossible.

 

[gus4778]

OK chaps, here are some photos... please be gentle!

View media item 28968
View media item 28969
The NICEIC chap's boss came round this morning to collect his money, and showed me the CU again - it looks as though there are a few MCBs with multiple wires... he said this was bad!

Opinions?

PS Sorry if some of my terminology has confused things... obviously I'm not an electrician!