Help, problems with bathroom waste

[leplanchon]

Hi all, I am having problems with my bathroom which has just been installed, I am using a macerator with 40mm pipe in and out, the problem is that the water is coming up into the shower tray and also slightly raising the level of the toilet bowl (not to the point of overflow), obvious question - is the shower tray lower than the inlet to the macerator A: no it isn't lol.

It seems that the water is running back from the macerator and also causing an airlock in the pipe and then the macerator doesn't know to pump the waste ( it is clean water coming back up not dirty )

also now to the point that when I run the tap in the basin, the water is filling up the Toilet bowl? and then once approx 6" higher than normal, proceeds to run backward to fill the shower tray. so again, the macerator isn't pushing it out, if I push the manual button on the unit, it all goes away as it should.

It is very difficult to explain but hopefully one of you can help me solve the problem, I have attached a diagram of the bathroom with text, take note of how the pipes run, if no text then they are running straight along with of course a downward gradient.

thanks so much in advance


Dave

 

[Breesey]

What fall do have on the pipe/s entering the unit from the shower and basin? It should be about 1 in 30.
And what is the fall on the high 4m section?

Does the vertical begin straight out of the unit or is there a horizontal run before the vertical?

 

[leplanchon]

Hi, Im not sure of the exact fall but it should be more than adequate, it was matched to the fall along the beam (4m section ) which has been in place for years without problem.

Out of the unit it goes up and straight into the 1 way valve, then 90 elbo through a wall (10cm) 90 elbow then up approx 1.5m into the already there 4m run.

 

[Breesey]

You are right it "should" be adequate but is it?

And fall of pipes into unit?

Is the elbow swept or a tight knuckle type?

 

[leplanchon]

I'm positive it should be as this was my first thought so I raised the shower/put it on blocks ( it's a complete cabin one ) and raised the fall of the pipes into the unit so I could see that it was going down all the way and the fact that the toilet fills up suggests that it is deffinitely going down to it.

knuckle Elbow I think.

Thanks so far

 

[Breesey]

That's quite a tight bend. Two 45's with 6" between would/could be better.

 

[leplanchon]

So do you think that could be the cause as if I were to do this, it would mean that I have to remove a plasterboard panel or cut a big hole out the other side of this wall as the pipes run in a void behind another wall in the room next door.

If I gotta do it then no probs lol

 

[Breesey]

Yes its possible, and ideally the pipe should go to the vertical within 300mm of the unit.

What unit are you using?

 

[leplanchon]

In the Uk it's called a saniflush 3 in France something else lol.

cant do anything about the height of where it enters the pipe though as it is an already in use pipe running from our other house next door and I cant go the other way as there is a back door in the pathway to the lower pipes.

anything else I should do?

also, I was thinking about putting a 1 way valve in just before the sink / shower enters the unit to stop the water being able to return?

 

[Breesey]

Did you get full installation instructions with it? Falls, bends and upstands would all be covered by these and it is obviously important that they are followed. Any other details that may affect the installation will really be down to you to identify and sort.

The NRV sounds OK in theory. Try it see what happens!

All the best with it

 

[leplanchon]

The instructions were no higher than 7m and no longer than 70m runs and solvent weld all pipes.

Forgot to ask / mention that it can work perfect when no air in system, I am able to run shower and basin for 20mins at a time and the macerator does it's job pumping it all out, it is overnight or when not in use that it appears to siphon and drag water back and also air causing airlock which means the macerator doesn't see water (just air) so wont kick in therefore the macerator doesn't kick in.

would an air admitance valve be a good idea somewhere at the high point?

I'm no expert which is why I'm here lol

thanks again for your help and patience.

 

[Breesey]

Yes. Was thinking about an AAV earlier on. Put it in at the highest point.

 

[leplanchon]

Hi, back again with an update,

been busy lately getting ready for the start of the season as we run a fishry so not had much time on this but last week, I ordered up a Hepvo valve from uk and it arrived promptly an I just couldn't wait to get it in and try it out,

I installed the Hepvo trap under the shower, great result, all the water drains away from the shower,sink and toilet flushed perfect, the next step was to wait till the following morning to see if any water had come back up in either the shower or toilet!

I inspected in the morning to see no water in the shower tray yipee! and the toilet bowl level about right, great I thought so I tried running the sink but the mascerator didn't kick in, instead the toilet bowl started to fill up, it was only when the bowl was 3/4 full that the pump did it's job, after a quick 5 second push of the overide button, all was working well again.

next morning toilet bowl was full, same again, push the button to get the pump working and it was all good.

I am sure now that the problem is siphoning and I deffo think that an air admitance valve will sort the problem but my question is - It has to go at the highest point but highest point of what? the installation for this bathroom or the highest point of all the pipework, if you remember or look at the diagram, the pipe that this bathroom t's into continues off somewhere else - it goes along and then up into another bathroom quite some distance away (approx 4 rooms accross then up to the upper floor so should I put the AAV in the upper bathroom?

prob all very confusing as I am just blurbing lol but any help would be appreciated,

thanks