Help!

[mb436]

Hi everybody,

Could someone please help me with some advice!

We have built an extension and a conservatory onto the house. We have contacted a registered (with BSI) electrician who is prepared to come and check the work to issue the certificate. He tells us that he will have to check every socket and switch in the house and then will issue a Periodic Inspection Report if all is OK. If anything is not exactly up to scratch he says we will need to replace it.

Since we have bought the house in 2004, we had replaced all of the fittings by January 2005, except for the extension and a conservatory which were built in the summer 2005. He says that the existing wiring looks OK and the new wiring that was done by my husband’s relative (who is an electrician but not registered) is excellent.

We cannot understand why all the existing installation has to be so vigorously checked, when it is working OK. Is this normal procedure and if not what is?

Is he not supposed to give us an electric installation certificate instead of a PIR?

Thank you so much in advance.

Maria

 

[andy]

We cannot understand why all the existing installation has to be so vigorously checked, when it is working OK. Is this normal procedure and if not what is?
because he is responsible so he wants to be 100% sure its safe
Is he not supposed to give us an electric installation certificate instead of a PIR?
he cannot certify YOUR work. only his own. to get a installation vertificate you either get a part P spark to do all the work or get LABC to come test/issue certs

 

[mb436]

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your quick reply. If the electrician wants everything to be 100% safe, it is fine with me, as I want to live in a safe house as well. What I do not understand is that when I ask about certificates, he insists that a PIR is what we need for a new installation (the house extension). If he cannot give us the electric installation certificate as you suggest, why would not he tell us straight, as this is the document which council asks us to issue the final extension approval.

If another electrician will install new wires in the extension, will he check the existing installation as well and issue the PIR for the existing installation and a new installation certificate for the extension and a conservatory or will it all have to come under a PIR? Sorry, but I do not really understand the new regulations/certificates much and do not want to be ripped off.

Thanks for your help.

Maria

 

[andy]

If another electrician will install new wires in the extension, will he check the existing installation as well and issue the PIR for the existing installation and a new installation certificate for the extension and a conservatory or will it all have to come under a PIR? Sorry, but I do not really understand the new regulations/certificates much and do not want to be ripped off.

Thanks for your help.

Maria

he can only issue EIC's if he has done the work. so if he done all the wiring for the extension, then he will issue EIC and part P forms. you could ask him to do a PIR on the rest of the building if you wanted

PIR will be extra ontop of the extension work, altho if you get it all done at the same time he'll probably give some discount

 

[BJS_Spark]

Who did the electrical work in the new extension/conservatory? They should have filled the EIC in and signed for the installation part. If after installing the person could not inspect and test, this should have then been done by someone qualified who could sign that part of the EIC. To do this all the work would have to have been left uncovered. If it has since been covered over then a qualified person can only perform a PIR or expose all the wiring to check it is correctly installed.

 

[mb436]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies guys, it is very much appreciated.

When we started looking at the building of the extension/conservatory and the part P regulations, we invited a registered electrician to have a look at what was needed to be done. He said that to save our costs, we could use our relative, who is not a registered electrician to put actual wires/sockets/ and everything in place. He said, he would come back and check the progress, correct anything that is not right, test the installation and in the end give us the certificate.

Well, our relative put the wires/lights and sockets in place. The registered electrician saw all wires, said it all looks great and said to call him when we finished all the building works and he will come and perform the final tests. Before we plastered and tiled the extension we asked him, if there was anything else he needed to do/see, he said no, proceed with decorating (so we did).

Now he says he can only give us a PIR and to do that everything in the house must be up to scratch (as far as we know it is). If it takes us to make holes in the newly decorated walls and ceiling, then we will have to do that if we want a PIR certificate. Moreover, he does not want to do the job himself, but says that if he finds anything wrong, our relative could fix it, again to save costs. He wants to do everything socket by socket and it could take weeks, because our relative has a day job! It all just sounds so weird.

I think he said that he can’t give us an EIC, because the extension does not have a new circuit and therefore classed as an existing installation and therefore comes under a PIR. Today, my husband called the building control and they said they need an EIC not a PIR.

Are there any demolition experts lurking on this forum???? Because, I think I am ready to excavate the whole thing to the ground.


Maria

 

[james 29]

Maria sounds like a nightmare!!!

Firstly i assume your extension is a kitchen which would fall under the special location bracket. As there has been no new circuit installe the certificate required would be a minor works.

The minor works has to be carried out by the person installing the work. The electrician, even though he has looked at it would be puttinng himself in exposure if he signed off the work of your relative as his own. Forget Electrical installation certificates you need a minor works for the lighting and power.

With respect, if it is a special location it is notifiable work and money time and effort can not be saved by carrying out this type of work using a relative, then expecting the clever stuff for a fraction of the cost.

If your relative can follow the regs and carry out inspection and testing then he needs to diy it through LABC and pay the fee. If not a domestic installer or competent person should have carried out ALL the work.

Im sorry to hear you are now in limbo but the electrician should have advised you of the above prior to work commencing.
In ordert to have your work passed off correctlywith the appropriate certification i would suggest you call an NICEIC domestic installer OR SIMILAR PART P ELECTRICIAN.

In order to issue a minor works he may require access to the wiring to inspect it if the runs are not obvious. Provide this.

The circuits will then be tested and certified and your extension can be signed off by building control.

The domestic installer is given a number in his registration pack to access a website for notification to the LABC by the scheme provider. The top copy of the cert goes to you, he keeps the copy and transfers the information off the sheet onto the website. The scheme provider as said then notifies the necessary LABC.

Sorry if the post is a bit long but this subject is touched upon quite a bit.

Hope you can get sorted out!!!!

 

[mb436]

Hi,

james 29, thanks for your message!

Firstly i assume your extension is a kitchen which would fall under the special location bracket.

Our extension is attached to the dining room, which is located next to the kitchen. The extention consists of a utility room where we have one light fitting, electric towel-rail and a few sockets for dishwasher, washing machine and fridge freezer. There is also an RCD on the wall to cut off power in the shower room, which is on the end of the utility room. In the shower room we have three downlights, a light/fan and an electric towel-rail as well. Our current electrician thinks it is too much for a minor works paper.

With respect, if it is a special location it is notifiable work and money time and effort can not be saved by carrying out this type of work using a relative, then expecting the clever stuff for a fraction of the cost.

Believe me, I agree with you 1000000%. The point is that my husband is the one who ordered and paid for the work and I did not have much say on what is being done and by whom. I think I should have used a frying pan to knock him out and sort everything out myself!

In ordert to have your work passed off correctlywith the appropriate certification i would suggest you call an NICEIC domestic installer OR SIMILAR PART P ELECTRICIAN.

I have found an electrician on partp.co.uk, who sounded quite sympathetic on the phone. He comes to have a look tomorrow. My husband has also spoken to another one registered with NICEIC as a back up, he can’t come till next week, but if we need a second opinion, we have got him.

Hopefully we will resolve this problem soon. Phew…

Maria

 

[james 29]

Hope it goes well!!!

 

[JohnD]

I don't think your frying pan would have taken away the pain of part P - there is no agreement on how it is supposed to work. Maybe you just like hitting your husband

A PIR is the best you are going to get, and more than most people have. No-one can do an Installation Certificate except the person who did the installation.

However, in the same way that building your extension was probably subject to Building Regs there is an arrangement to have the local authority inspector approve electrical installations done by a non-qualified person, a bit like, i suppose, if you did some structural DIY. The funny thing is most local authorities want it to have already been inspected and tested by a qualified electrician, which I gather you are arranging already as a PIR. You might like to browse your local authority on electrical installations and building regs, it is a very common question.