Hi I wondered if anyone could advise- I am having a hallway, stairs and landing re painted, in white. The last time it was painted dulux trade vinyl matt was used. The house is a victorian semi. I like the look of 'high opacity' F+B type paints, and , even though it is only going to be white, I was wondering about using a paint that would give a 'denser' flatter finish than at the moment. Has anyone used Johnstones High Opacity Matt paint? I wondered about using this. I would like it to be at least wipable if not washable. Thanks for any advice.
High opacity matt paint
- Thread starter jonm01
- Start date
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I wonder how you got on with the Dulux flat matt, jonm01?
As discussed here a couple of months or so, I have been having the most terrible problems with the ceiling of a large study with sloping sides and an open staircase in the centre going downstairs. I haven't been doing it myself (too old and disabled to tackle such a job anymore) but 3 so-called professionals have had a go at it. The plasterboard has been well skimmed, no visible join marks and although it was a bit grubby was in good condition. The first chap claims to have done it four times, 2 coats with Dulux Walls and Ceilings (looked stripey) and then 2 coats with Dulux Trade Vinyl Emulsion (the environmentally friendly one) - still looked stripey, though not in the same places. Just looked as though some bits had been missed, some bits more shiny than others but if you stood underneath completely white. Had various decorators in to have a look and quote. All said the paint hadn't been evenly applied. Picked one of them who gave it another 2 coats, this time Dulux Trade Matt Emulsion but bought from Homebase rather than a Dulux shop. Much worse than before, quite shiny (especially in elec. light) apart from the bits which weren't! I thought I'd better find me a Dulux Select Decorator who came today and applied 2 coats of a new improved Dulux trade vinyl matt which claims to have reduced sheen. Maybe it is slightly, but you can still see stripes which look as though they have been missed and they are not in the same places as before. He says it will probably look OK when it has cured, in about 2 weeks. I don't think it will. It looks just like the first time. You can see where he has cut in with a brush round the hatch etc. although he said the paint didn't need thinning and the tin talks about 2 full coats or even one on a surface the same colour.
I had had some conversations with Dulux previously and they suggested using flatmatt but this decorator doesn't like it. Said it would look worse as it is too thick. He prefers Gliddens but as Dulux had sent me some vouchers for either Flatmatt or Vinyl matt (they said Gliddens was inferior) and this one claimed to be reduced sheen and the cat's whiskers, he got it.
I give up. All these decorators criticise their predecessors' work but then don't do any better. I'm not going to have it done for a 4th time and will just have to put up with an unsightly ceiling but I'd like to know for next time whether Dulux Flatmatt is any good. It seems to me that Dulux are mucking about with their paints an awful lot and not getting it right. Probably due to some EU ruling. I used their Rich Matt for a large ceiling a few years ago and it looks perfect and no sheen, stripes or patches whatsoever. Very difficult to know how much is the paint and how much the painter, who seemed a nice enough chap. It is obvious that he has painted in straight lines rather than Vs and Ws. Dulux suggest the latter but he says they don't know what they are talking about. Before I took him on, he claimed to have painted a similar but even more tricky room successfully, but he used Gliddens.
Incidentally, I am pretty sure that Dulux told me that their flatmatt wasn't wipeable but I think I'd settle for that rather than have all the stripes.
As discussed here a couple of months or so, I have been having the most terrible problems with the ceiling of a large study with sloping sides and an open staircase in the centre going downstairs. I haven't been doing it myself (too old and disabled to tackle such a job anymore) but 3 so-called professionals have had a go at it. The plasterboard has been well skimmed, no visible join marks and although it was a bit grubby was in good condition. The first chap claims to have done it four times, 2 coats with Dulux Walls and Ceilings (looked stripey) and then 2 coats with Dulux Trade Vinyl Emulsion (the environmentally friendly one) - still looked stripey, though not in the same places. Just looked as though some bits had been missed, some bits more shiny than others but if you stood underneath completely white. Had various decorators in to have a look and quote. All said the paint hadn't been evenly applied. Picked one of them who gave it another 2 coats, this time Dulux Trade Matt Emulsion but bought from Homebase rather than a Dulux shop. Much worse than before, quite shiny (especially in elec. light) apart from the bits which weren't! I thought I'd better find me a Dulux Select Decorator who came today and applied 2 coats of a new improved Dulux trade vinyl matt which claims to have reduced sheen. Maybe it is slightly, but you can still see stripes which look as though they have been missed and they are not in the same places as before. He says it will probably look OK when it has cured, in about 2 weeks. I don't think it will. It looks just like the first time. You can see where he has cut in with a brush round the hatch etc. although he said the paint didn't need thinning and the tin talks about 2 full coats or even one on a surface the same colour.
I had had some conversations with Dulux previously and they suggested using flatmatt but this decorator doesn't like it. Said it would look worse as it is too thick. He prefers Gliddens but as Dulux had sent me some vouchers for either Flatmatt or Vinyl matt (they said Gliddens was inferior) and this one claimed to be reduced sheen and the cat's whiskers, he got it.
I give up. All these decorators criticise their predecessors' work but then don't do any better. I'm not going to have it done for a 4th time and will just have to put up with an unsightly ceiling but I'd like to know for next time whether Dulux Flatmatt is any good. It seems to me that Dulux are mucking about with their paints an awful lot and not getting it right. Probably due to some EU ruling. I used their Rich Matt for a large ceiling a few years ago and it looks perfect and no sheen, stripes or patches whatsoever. Very difficult to know how much is the paint and how much the painter, who seemed a nice enough chap. It is obvious that he has painted in straight lines rather than Vs and Ws. Dulux suggest the latter but he says they don't know what they are talking about. Before I took him on, he claimed to have painted a similar but even more tricky room successfully, but he used Gliddens.
Incidentally, I am pretty sure that Dulux told me that their flatmatt wasn't wipeable but I think I'd settle for that rather than have all the stripes.
Dulux (as usual) are talking absolute rubbish. V's and w's may be a good diy way of painting a ceiling but not how i'd expect a pro to do it. Also there is nothing wrong with gliddens vinyl matt emulsion, in fact it is my first choice for ceilings and use it all the time. I too believe that dulux are going down the pan fast but thats another matter.
It seems that you've now had 4 or 5 decs in, and it would be bad luck that they were all useless so out of interest did any of them sand the ceiling before painting? I'm also surprised that after listening to your troubles that none of them suggested using the white that goes on pink and dries white. I say this because it would give a clearer idea of any low spots in the ceiling that could be causing the stripes/misses, it is a slighlty inferior paint and does not give a very pure white but at least would do what i've just said or give an even coverage.
Although dulux select doesn't mean the decorator is any good it does give you some indemnity, dulux are obliged to warrant the job and you need to push this point home if after a couple of weeks the paint hasn't cured (cough). As for thinning paint it often comes down to the individual decorator, personally i always thin trade paint except funnily enough gliddens which is perfect straight out of the tub after a stir. You should not be able to see the cutting in, there's two ways round this which are cut in twice and roll three or you can thin the paint you cut in with but it is 'operator error' he has applied the paint to heavily by brush which is easy to do as you put more paint on with a brush than you do a roller.
You say the ceiling was skimmed, so was it boarded first? i ask because the low points in the ceiling could be caused by the boards not being installed evenly and flush. It could also be that the plaster has been applied unevenly, a long straight bit of timber offered up can check this.
At the end of the day its bad the way you've been treated and puts my trade to shame, but that dulux select thing is your saving grace, get tough and start moaning at them they will HAVE to come and make it right and if you get another dipstick follow my advice and insist he rubs it down and checks the ceiling is level and like i said the pink stuff isn't great but in this situation it will make everybody happy.
Best of luck
It seems that you've now had 4 or 5 decs in, and it would be bad luck that they were all useless so out of interest did any of them sand the ceiling before painting? I'm also surprised that after listening to your troubles that none of them suggested using the white that goes on pink and dries white. I say this because it would give a clearer idea of any low spots in the ceiling that could be causing the stripes/misses, it is a slighlty inferior paint and does not give a very pure white but at least would do what i've just said or give an even coverage.
Although dulux select doesn't mean the decorator is any good it does give you some indemnity, dulux are obliged to warrant the job and you need to push this point home if after a couple of weeks the paint hasn't cured (cough). As for thinning paint it often comes down to the individual decorator, personally i always thin trade paint except funnily enough gliddens which is perfect straight out of the tub after a stir. You should not be able to see the cutting in, there's two ways round this which are cut in twice and roll three or you can thin the paint you cut in with but it is 'operator error' he has applied the paint to heavily by brush which is easy to do as you put more paint on with a brush than you do a roller.
You say the ceiling was skimmed, so was it boarded first? i ask because the low points in the ceiling could be caused by the boards not being installed evenly and flush. It could also be that the plaster has been applied unevenly, a long straight bit of timber offered up can check this.
At the end of the day its bad the way you've been treated and puts my trade to shame, but that dulux select thing is your saving grace, get tough and start moaning at them they will HAVE to come and make it right and if you get another dipstick follow my advice and insist he rubs it down and checks the ceiling is level and like i said the pink stuff isn't great but in this situation it will make everybody happy.
Best of luck
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Not sure what you mean by boarded. The study is the upstairs of an extension our predecessors had built about l5 yrs ago. It is a bit like a loft conversion, hence the sloping sides of the ceiling, but it was purposely built like that. It is presumably plasterboard, skimmed over in the usual way, and I would say particularly well done. It looks perfectly flat though there might be the odd very minor indentation if you look closely but that's not what I am seeing. It is quite obvious that the stripes are caused by the rollering and that the paint is thicker in some places than others. My gut feeling is that it should have been thinned. He is used to using Gliddens straight from the tin and thought this would be the same though he is not admitting it should have been thinned. I had previously pointed out to Dulux that the tin talks about full coats and doesn't mention thinning but they said a true professional would know whether it needed thinning or not and up to 10% water cd be added. I've just looked up the data sheet on the internet and it mentions the thinning but the tin only talks about full coats. As I said, it's all perfectly white, just that the sheen is not even which causes the striped effect.
Re rubbing down, the first one did rub it all down; the others not. There are now rough bits which look as though they should be rubbed down but that is the thick paint pulled up by the roller. It's hard to know what to do. I am sure the chap did his best but his best wasn't good enough, though he had plenty to say about amateurs claiming to be professionals. If the paint is the problem, Dulux should be accountable but it's difficult to have a battle with them without snitching on the decorator and possibly losing him his accreditation. After the 2nd chap, I sent samples of all the paint used to Dulux and their techies said it was perfectly OK so I suggested they might like to come and use it in this context (a bit different from just painting a sample on to a bit of board) and see how they got on. No response, needless to say. The people one deals with on the phone don't seem very bright. I doubt if they ever admit there is a problem though it makes one wonder why they give you vouchers, which don't cover the labour costs of course.
I notice from the internet that there appears to be a paint called Dulux Fastmatt (a new one perhaps) which claims to be good for critical light situations (and I think it said also good for patching in) which may be the case here as there are windows at both ends of the room and a couple of velux windows on one of the sloping sides. I wonder why the techies didn't suggest that one. I have more than enough stress in my life without this, esp. in view of my husband's cancer, and it's making me ill. Ashamed to admit how many cigs I smoked today.
Still would like to know how the OP got on with the Flatmatt.
Re rubbing down, the first one did rub it all down; the others not. There are now rough bits which look as though they should be rubbed down but that is the thick paint pulled up by the roller. It's hard to know what to do. I am sure the chap did his best but his best wasn't good enough, though he had plenty to say about amateurs claiming to be professionals. If the paint is the problem, Dulux should be accountable but it's difficult to have a battle with them without snitching on the decorator and possibly losing him his accreditation. After the 2nd chap, I sent samples of all the paint used to Dulux and their techies said it was perfectly OK so I suggested they might like to come and use it in this context (a bit different from just painting a sample on to a bit of board) and see how they got on. No response, needless to say. The people one deals with on the phone don't seem very bright. I doubt if they ever admit there is a problem though it makes one wonder why they give you vouchers, which don't cover the labour costs of course.
I notice from the internet that there appears to be a paint called Dulux Fastmatt (a new one perhaps) which claims to be good for critical light situations (and I think it said also good for patching in) which may be the case here as there are windows at both ends of the room and a couple of velux windows on one of the sloping sides. I wonder why the techies didn't suggest that one. I have more than enough stress in my life without this, esp. in view of my husband's cancer, and it's making me ill. Ashamed to admit how many cigs I smoked today.
Still would like to know how the OP got on with the Flatmatt.
Your not really going to be snitching on the guy. Arguably the dulux select scheme is just a money making oppertunity for dulux, so he's unlikely to lose his accreditation. Like i said before his work is warranted by dulux through the select scheme and if the work isn't to a professional standard it should be so you should have no qualms about getting on the phone.
Funny that a dulux select decorator is used to using gliddens? why? because its a superior paint but the dulux select scheme dictates he uses their products, i use dulux, gliddens, zinsser, sikkens, little green and johnstones because i choose the best paint for the job its stupid to blindly carry on with dulux products if its not doing the job. Gliddens is still ICI branded but as akzo own the dulux brand i guess its no longer in the group.
Boarded means plaster boarded before the skim.
Most dulux trade products need thinning out of the tin but its also important what type of roller sleeve is used, if the deccy uses a long pile roller its going to apply alot more paint than a short pile. We thin paint to aid flow, it doesn't mean it isnt a full coat if it has been thinned by 10% or so and dulux are right that a good decorator can tell instantly if paint needs thinning (its not rocket science)
The fast matt looks like its just got a low vinyl content, probaly just another incarnation of contract matt.
Funny that a dulux select decorator is used to using gliddens? why? because its a superior paint but the dulux select scheme dictates he uses their products, i use dulux, gliddens, zinsser, sikkens, little green and johnstones because i choose the best paint for the job its stupid to blindly carry on with dulux products if its not doing the job. Gliddens is still ICI branded but as akzo own the dulux brand i guess its no longer in the group.
Boarded means plaster boarded before the skim.
Most dulux trade products need thinning out of the tin but its also important what type of roller sleeve is used, if the deccy uses a long pile roller its going to apply alot more paint than a short pile. We thin paint to aid flow, it doesn't mean it isnt a full coat if it has been thinned by 10% or so and dulux are right that a good decorator can tell instantly if paint needs thinning (its not rocket science)
The fast matt looks like its just got a low vinyl content, probaly just another incarnation of contract matt.
I must say that I thought Dulux also made Gliddens but that must have changed. Quite recently when I googled dulux vinyl matt, a dulux article came up which talked about applying a thinned coat of dvm to new plaster and then 2 full coats of Gliddens which I thought rather bizarre. After I had mentioned this to the Dulux tech team person, it seems to have been removed. I see that flatmatt claims to be wipeable, acc. to the website, though I am sure their spokesman told me it wasn't, which is why I didn't press the decorator to use it.
Yesterday's chap also repainted (2 coats) a small wall going up the stairs to the study which had been done by first decorator twice (stripey and patchy) and twice by me, somewhat better but still not perfect. This was with the retail walls & ceilings which I had bought initially and still have quite a lot left. In the morning light, it is still no better - still stripey - but I can assure you that that wall was perfect before we started this nightmare in June. It didn't even look as though it needed repainting but it joined on to other bits we were redoing so was included. I am wondering whether it is a question of whether one finishes all in the same direction. I know for a fact that when I did it, and I am sure the others would say the same, that I joined on to a wet edge. I have been doing much of my own decorating for 40 years, as well as employing decorators, and have never had any problems until this year.
As regards dulux select decs. using dulux paint, clearly they are supposed to but one I had round was proposing to use another brand; I think it was Macpherson's, one I had never heard of anyway. I am going to see if I can find out the MD of Akzo Nobel and possibly write to him; they seem to be going down the pan and bringing out so many different versions it's hard to know what to use. Terry's and Green & Black chocolate now looks like plastic and tastes awful after being taken over by Kraft and I think the same is happening to Dulux paint standards. In the meantime, I think I will raise a complaint with the tech. team. You are right, of course. That was why I used the select dec. in the first place and if there is something wrong with their paint they need to know about it.
Yesterday's chap also repainted (2 coats) a small wall going up the stairs to the study which had been done by first decorator twice (stripey and patchy) and twice by me, somewhat better but still not perfect. This was with the retail walls & ceilings which I had bought initially and still have quite a lot left. In the morning light, it is still no better - still stripey - but I can assure you that that wall was perfect before we started this nightmare in June. It didn't even look as though it needed repainting but it joined on to other bits we were redoing so was included. I am wondering whether it is a question of whether one finishes all in the same direction. I know for a fact that when I did it, and I am sure the others would say the same, that I joined on to a wet edge. I have been doing much of my own decorating for 40 years, as well as employing decorators, and have never had any problems until this year.
As regards dulux select decs. using dulux paint, clearly they are supposed to but one I had round was proposing to use another brand; I think it was Macpherson's, one I had never heard of anyway. I am going to see if I can find out the MD of Akzo Nobel and possibly write to him; they seem to be going down the pan and bringing out so many different versions it's hard to know what to use. Terry's and Green & Black chocolate now looks like plastic and tastes awful after being taken over by Kraft and I think the same is happening to Dulux paint standards. In the meantime, I think I will raise a complaint with the tech. team. You are right, of course. That was why I used the select dec. in the first place and if there is something wrong with their paint they need to know about it.
This could go back and forwards forever. what you need to do is get on the phone to Dulux select, (you'll be wasting your time trying to get the MD) ask them to send another decorator and tell them its their last chance and if it is not put right you will employ a decorator to come and put it right using your choice of paint and you will send Dulux the bill, hell i'm tempted to come and do it myself!
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