Home Network/AV layout during Renovation...

[Adam182]

Hi everyone, I'm currently undergoing a full DIY house renovation (back to brick) and am in the process of planning out the home ethernet network/AV.

I will be using cat6 UTP cable throughout, and solid copper Coaxial for Sat/Aerial.

This is the plan I've come up with so far and would love any feedback/ideas/advice.

I'm a complete newbie to this but have been researching like a maniac so please excuse any silly mistakes I might need pulling up on..

Thankyou, Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[Lucid]

Looks okay. I think your research has paid off. You've provisioned plenty of Ethernet, so that's good. I take it you're planning to run an Octo (8-output) ajnd a Quad (4-output) LNB to service the 10 satellite feed outputs distributed around the house? [Front bedroom 3, Living room 3, Loft 1, Kitchen 1, Side bedroom 1, Back bedroom 1]. I take it you have TVs with a Freesat tuner as well as the recorder boxes in certain rooms? ust an idea, but have you looked at putting in a Quattro LNB with a multi-switch? A 5x16-way multi-switch could combine aerial and the four modes of the LNB feed.

You have Android boxes and a couple of pieces of Sonos spec'd. Do you plan to run a NAS drive for your own music and movie library or do you see yourself relying on streamed content primarily?

Sonos Play1 (or any mains speaker) in a bathroom wouldn't be my first choice. It's a 240V mains powered device and not really designed for steamy or moisture heavy environments. A Connect Amp (either new or used) running in to a decent single point stereo speaker (6.5" kevlar woofer, titanium dome tweeter) would be a more robust solution. House the amp in an adjacent bedroom or the loft. It will cost more but last longer and won't risk killing someone.

You've also got a couple of Wi-Fi extenders. Do you have problems with the Wi-Fi at the moment even with the Netgear's beam forming antenna array?


Don't forget to spec Cat6 Ethernet sockets and plugs to maintain the rating of the system. Also, label up all the cable tails as the cable is pulled, and leave plenty of spare hanging out of the walls for testing and hook up purposes.

Final note, while you have bare brick walls, this is an ideal time to pre-wire for a surround system. Dolby ATMOS is starting to feature on a lot of Blu-rays, some streamed content and is said to be planned for Sky 4K sports. Even if you might not go that way yet, having the speaker wire ready in wall at the various speaker points could save you hundreds £££'s and also be a good selling point should you decide to move in 5-10 years.

 

[Adam182]

Firstly thankyou for the feedback it is greatly appreciated.

Looks okay. I think your research has paid off. You've provisioned plenty of Ethernet, so that's good. I take it you're planning to run an Octo (8-output) ajnd a Quad (4-output) LNB to service the 10 satellite feed outputs distributed around the house? [Front bedroom 3, Living room 3, Loft 1, Kitchen 1, Side bedroom 1, Back bedroom 1] I hadn't actually realised I wouldn't have enough outputs in a single Octo LNB. I take it you have TVs with a Freesat tuner as well as the recorder boxes in certain rooms? Yes thats correct any TVs without a Freesat box will have a built in tuner. just an idea, but have you looked at putting in a Quattro LNB with a multi-switch? A 5x16-way multi-switch could combine aerial and the four modes of the LNB feed. This sounds like a good idea, I had heard of switches but not a Quattro LNB, for some reason the word ''switches'' had me thinking it was something I would need to physically ''switch'' in order to pass the signals around the tvs, unless that is what you have to do...

You have Android boxes and a couple of pieces of Sonos spec'd. Do you plan to run a NAS drive for your own music and movie library or do you see yourself relying on streamed content primarily? Ah yes I will be adding a NAS I just figured I could add this in afterwards so didn't include it in the plan (or forgot to)

Sonos Play1 (or any mains speaker) in a bathroom wouldn't be my first choice. It's a 240V mains powered device and not really designed for steamy or moisture heavy environments. A Connect Amp (either new or used) running in to a decent single point stereo speaker (6.5" kevlar woofer, titanium dome tweeter) would be a more robust solution. House the amp in an adjacent bedroom or the loft. It will cost more but last longer and won't risk killing someone. My plan for this was to have the actual plug socket for the Sonos speaker (situated on a mount in the top corner) fed through up into the loft, I read that the Sonos Play1s are moisture resistant and even on their advert they have one in a bathroom right next to a bath. That said I had previously looked at bathroom speakers but they seemed to be extremely expensive.

You've also got a couple of Wi-Fi extenders. Do you have problems with the Wi-Fi at the moment even with the Netgear's beam forming antenna array? I've only recently bought the property so I'm not sure of how well the Wi-Fi will perform, that said now to think of it, the router is currently at my parents house and there doesn't seem to be any signal issues. Maybe I could lose the extenders afterall, it is only a 3 bed semi.


Don't forget to spec Cat6 Ethernet sockets and plugs to maintain the rating of the system. Also, label up all the cable tails as the cable is pulled, and leave plenty of spare hanging out of the walls for testing and hook up purposes. Good call thanks for bringing this up, I was planning for this but its always great to be reminded just incase

Final note, while you have bare brick walls, this is an ideal time to pre-wire for a surround system. Dolby ATMOS is starting to feature on a lot of Blu-rays, some streamed content and is said to be planned for Sky 4K sports. Even if you might not go that way yet, having the speaker wire ready in wall at the various speaker points could save you hundreds £££'s and also be a good selling point should you decide to move in 5-10 years. Its funny you mention this as it has been on my mind, but the thought of figuring out where to actually take the wires to and leave the outlet (would they be unsightly if not in use?) had me stressing so I kind of never thought about doing it. Now you have mentioned it though it does sound like a very good idea. I will have to do some research on how speaker wiring works I guess.

Again thankyou so much for all your advice and help.

 

[Doggit]

You've got several ethernet points in each room, but are they clumped together in one location, or positioned on either side of the room. Some rooms only allow one layout, but women have a bad habit of wanting the room changed round every couple of years, so be careful. Multiple points also mean more flexibility as to where you site your computer in the event that you start getting wifi channel conflicts in the future, and want to use an ethernet cable instead.

You're running multiple feeds from the Satellite dish to each room, but that assumes that you'll have a box in each room rather than controlling a master box running in the living room.

You're showing the aerial leads going from the main aerial to each room, so you're obviously using a splitter, but you might be better off taking a main feed to the loft, putting the amplifier/splitter up there, and then taking the feeds to each room; or possibly setting it up alongside the ethernet hub in the back bedroom.

You don't seem to be adding in any home automation options, and whilst most of these rely on wifi, some may require hard wiring to light switches etc. The new Sonos 1 speakers are incorporating Alexa, so this could open up a different aspect for you.

Here's an interesting link regarding Sonos and bathrooms.

Are you using wifi extenders plugged into an ethernet port, or just a simple extender that bounces the signal further, as these just plug into an electrical socket near where the signal starts to drop.

 

[Adam182]

Thanks for the input Doggit, much appreciated

You've got several ethernet points in each room, but are they clumped together in one location, or positioned on either side of the room. Some rooms only allow one layout, but women have a bad habit of wanting the room changed round every couple of years, so be careful. Multiple points also mean more flexibility as to where you site your computer in the event that you start getting wifi channel conflicts in the future, and want to use an ethernet cable instead. I understand your point I was just trying to avoid having random wall plates allover the place, especially for wall mounted TVs as they are half way up the wall. I started to overthink it really and ended up in the mindset to just pick a layout and go with it.

You're running multiple feeds from the Satellite dish to each room, but that assumes that you'll have a box in each room rather than controlling a master box running in the living room. I wasn't sure how I could connect a master box upto multiple TVs and be able to watch a different program on more than 2 TVs at a time (unlikely I know) along with controller the master from a different room.

You're showing the aerial leads going from the main aerial to each room, so you're obviously using a splitter, but you might be better off taking a main feed to the loft, putting the amplifier/splitter up there, and then taking the feeds to each room; or possibly setting it up alongside the ethernet hub in the back bedroom. In all honesty I hadn't actually considered how I was going to connect to the aerial itself, but I'm guessing its a splitter having it in the loft totally makes sense.

You don't seem to be adding in any home automation options, and whilst most of these rely on wifi, some may require hard wiring to light switches etc. The new Sonos 1 speakers are incorporating Alexa, so this could open up a different aspect for you. Yeah I was kind of thinking Wi-Fi for the home automation (apart from Ethernet connected Sonos Alexa as you mentioned) I aren't really sure what home automation tech benefits from an Ethernet connection (I've seen Glass+ light switches that communicate with Alexa via Wi-Fi which I was considering)

Here's an interesting link regarding Sonos and bathrooms. Thanks for the link, some interesting ideas here.

Are you using wifi extenders plugged into an ethernet port, or just a simple extender that bounces the signal further, as these just plug into an electrical socket near where the signal starts to drop. I was planning on using extenders plugged into a Wi-Fi port, was so sure how well the others performed and seeing asthough I have the opportunity to drop Ethernet wherever I thought this would be optimal.

 

[Adam182]

Would this layout work for the Kitchen with the Ethernet/Coax being in close proximity?

 

[Adam182]

Also here is my idea for the Lounge Setup if I were to go with a surround setup instead of Sonos, I have omitted the RB and LB speakers as they will be on the back wall, I also plan to run wires for 2 ceiling speakers for future ATMOS support.

If I plug all my devices into the A/V receiver will I just need 1 HDMI lead from here to the TV?

 

[Lucid]

Coax and Ethernet together should be okay so long as you use an all-copper aerial coax (WF100/TX100/PF100). Make sure your Ethernet cable is all copper too, not copper coated aluminium (CCA).

The wall plate for the speaker connections behind the AV rack is fine. Personally I don't use the banana socket plates behind the speakers unless it's floorstanders that are likely to be moved. With wall mounted speakers the plates take up valuable space behind the speaker/bracket.

Kitchen TV: Chances are you'll put in quite a bit of LED ceiling light to make the kitchen bright for a good working environment. However, if the TV is dead vertical on its bracket then it may pick up reflections from the lights and maybe the window(s) and other glass too. Tilting the TV can help alleviate some of these issues. However, if your module plate is on the lower half of the wall then the plugs and cables sticking out will foul the TV. Have a think about raising the level of the wall plate, or doing away with it all together and use a brush plate instead.

Ditto the above with the lounge TV. I'd brang all except power through a brush plate positioned a couple of inches lower than the top edge of the TV.

AV Receiver: Yes, a single HDMI will do. Make sure to spec an AV receiver with HDMI Standby Pass-Thru. This allows the HDMI signal from one nominated input to go via the receiver to the TV even when the receiver is off. This is useful if someone just needs TV without surround sound. Midrange AV receivers (£600+) have the ability to route any HDMI through in standby mode. You can even change inputs with the receiver in standby.

Front 3 channel speakers should be as close as possible to level with each other. It helps the panning effects.

Keep side/rear surrounds away from room corners,

 

[Adam182]

Coax and Ethernet together should be okay so long as you use an all-copper aerial coax (WF100/TX100/PF100). Make sure your Ethernet cable is all copper too, not copper coated aluminium (CCA).

The wall plate for the speaker connections behind the AV rack is fine. Personally I don't use the banana socket plates behind the speakers unless it's floorstanders that are likely to be moved. With wall mounted speakers the plates take up valuable space behind the speaker/bracket.

Kitchen TV: Chances are you'll put in quite a bit of LED ceiling light to make the kitchen bright for a good working environment. However, if the TV is dead vertical on its bracket then it may pick up reflections from the lights and maybe the window(s) and other glass too. Tilting the TV can help alleviate some of these issues. However, if your module plate is on the lower half of the wall then the plugs and cables sticking out will foul the TV. Have a think about raising the level of the wall plate, or doing away with it all together and use a brush plate instead.

Ditto the above with the lounge TV. I'd brang all except power through a brush plate positioned a couple of inches lower than the top edge of the TV.

AV Receiver: Yes, a single HDMI will do. Make sure to spec an AV receiver with HDMI Standby Pass-Thru. This allows the HDMI signal from one nominated input to go via the receiver to the TV even when the receiver is off. This is useful if someone just needs TV without surround sound. Midrange AV receivers (£600+) have the ability to route any HDMI through in standby mode. You can even change inputs with the receiver in standby.

Front 3 channel speakers should be as close as possible to level with each other. It helps the panning effects.

Keep side/rear surrounds away from room corners,

Thankyou for the reply, without using a wallplate behind speakers how would you finish the the area where the wire comes through the plasterboard, I don't want it to be an eyesore incase my budget doesn't stretch for a speaker system at this time.

Regards finishing behind TVs with a brush plate as opposed to terminating them at a plate would the solid UTP ethernet cable have enough play to bend up behind the TV and into its port?

Im open to any A/V receiver + Speaker recommendations at this point, my budget will likely be around £1000 at this time, any change would be great, it's actually competing against the possible purchase of a Sonos Playbar instead.

 

[Lucid]

Wall plates
You can still use a wall plate; just use a blank rather than one with two big brass screwdown connectors.

Here's how I see it breaking down. You're going to be cutting out and sinking a back box in any event. You could spend a tenner a point on a Euro module frame and speaker connector inserts (£50 in total), or go a bit cheaper for a pre-made single gang plate of the same configuration. Alternatively you could put blanking plates on all and leave the connection cable curled up inside ready. You'll spend £10-£15 in total on blanks.

When you come to do the speaker install you have a choice. You could swap out the blanks for the screw connector wall plates. Or you could drill a hole in the wall plates to bring the cable through. It will look neat, take up very little room, and cost a fraction of the price.

Network cable
Solid UTP is plenty flexible enough to do what you need.


AV Receiver & Speakers
It depends what you want really. Entry-level 5.1 AV receivers start at under £200. They're very basic but okay. Things start to get more interesting in the £300-£400 category. You get a broader range of inputs, better sound quality, and a few more toys. £550 is your entry-level price for an amp that will do the simplest version of ATMOS (5.1.2). The bulk of the ATMOS action though is with amps at £700 and up. Prices top out at around £3000

Speakers is a bit trickier. There's the same kind of steps: Basic entry-level @ £100-£200, then step-up products at £250-£400. Things start to get really good at £600+

If you go for an ATMOS capable amp straight away then you'll blow a big chunk of your budget without being able to complete the speakers in an ATMOS configuration unless you severely compromise the the main speaker quality. The better way would be to buy a more basic amp as a stop-gap and put more money in to the 5.1 speaker kit so you have a the foundation of a good system on which to build.

If you're just looking to compete in sound terms with the Sonos then the Canton Movie 75 (£280) or Wharfedale DX1 SE (£300) 5.1 speaker packages plus a Yamaha RXV483 (£350) will do that and more. You'll get full 5.1 surround with a sub, all the standard and HD audio processing, and all for around the cost of the Playbar alone. If you wanted to equal the layout with Sonos then you'd need a Playbar, a sub and 2x Play1's which means you'd blow the better part of £1,700 and still have only ProLogic and DD audio decoding.


Of course, there is another way. One that means you can have your cake and eat it. Get the right used amp and used speakers and you can have £1000 AV System performance for less than 1/3 the price. Then, when you're ready to install some decent ATMOS in-ceiling speakers, change the AV Receiver for one of the latest new models. In the mean time, use the savings on the AV system now to buy a Connect and you'll have full 5.1/7.1 capability, with HDMI standby pass-thru, 4K TV compatibility, App control, £500 speaker performance and full Sonos functionality for around Playbar-only money. How does that sound?

 

[Adam182]

Wall plates
You can still use a wall plate; just use a blank rather than one with two big brass screwdown connectors.

Here's how I see it breaking down. You're going to be cutting out and sinking a back box in any event. You could spend a tenner a point on a Euro module frame and speaker connector inserts (£50 in total), or go a bit cheaper for a pre-made single gang plate of the same configuration. Alternatively you could put blanking plates on all and leave the connection cable curled up inside ready. You'll spend £10-£15 in total on blanks.

When you come to do the speaker install you have a choice. You could swap out the blanks for the screw connector wall plates. Or you could drill a hole in the wall plates to bring the cable through. It will look neat, take up very little room, and cost a fraction of the price.

Network cable
Solid UTP is plenty flexible enough to do what you need.


AV Receiver & Speakers
It depends what you want really. Entry-level 5.1 AV receivers start at under £200. They're very basic but okay. Things start to get more interesting in the £300-£400 category. You get a broader range of inputs, better sound quality, and a few more toys. £550 is your entry-level price for an amp that will do the simplest version of ATMOS (5.1.2). The bulk of the ATMOS action though is with amps at £700 and up. Prices top out at around £3000

Speakers is a bit trickier. There's the same kind of steps: Basic entry-level @ £100-£200, then step-up products at £250-£400. Things start to get really good at £600+

If you go for an ATMOS capable amp straight away then you'll blow a big chunk of your budget without being able to complete the speakers in an ATMOS configuration unless you severely compromise the the main speaker quality. The better way would be to buy a more basic amp as a stop-gap and put more money in to the 5.1 speaker kit so you have a the foundation of a good system on which to build.

If you're just looking to compete in sound terms with the Sonos then the Canton Movie 75 (£280) or Wharfedale DX1 SE (£300) 5.1 speaker packages plus a Yamaha RXV483 (£350) will do that and more. You'll get full 5.1 surround with a sub, all the standard and HD audio processing, and all for around the cost of the Playbar alone. If you wanted to equal the layout with Sonos then you'd need a Playbar, a sub and 2x Play1's which means you'd blow the better part of £1,700 and still have only ProLogic and DD audio decoding.


Of course, there is another way. One that means you can have your cake and eat it. Get the right used and and used speakers and you can have £1000 AV System performance for less than 1/3 the price. Then, when you're ready to install some decent ATMOS in-ceiling speakers, change the AV Receiver for one of the latest new models. In the mean time, use the savings on the AV system now to buy a Connect and you'll have full 5.1/7.1 capability, with HDMI standby pass-thru, 4K TV compatibility, App control, £500 speaker performance and full Sonos functionality for around Playbar-only money. How does that sound?

Cannot thank you enough for this in depth reply. It really has cleared alot of things that were bouncing around in my head to the point of being quite a stress!

I'm totally in for starting with a base setup and then adding the ATMOS and upgrading further down the line when budget allows.

And the idea for just using blanking plates instead of the modules is fantastic, I'm always down for saving money it's even better when it also allows for different options re termination afterwards. Are the architrave backboxes commonly used for audio setups like this? I had never even heard of them before until I stumbled across them looking for images the other day for my layout mockups.

I'm going to get some photos tomorrow of the room as it stands as I could really use some advice on speaker placement then I can get to work on chasing in the wires.

I wonder if there will be any nice Black Friday deals next month for some equipment, that would be great.

Thanks again for your time it really is appreciated.

 

[Lucid]

For fixing single gang sockets in to plastered and dot-n-dab boarded walls you or your spark with use metal knockout boxes such as these. https://www.screwfix.com/p/appleby-galvanised-steel-knockout-box-1g-25mm/79195 They come in different depths ranging from the thinnest at 16mm to the deepest commonly available at 47mm. If you're coiling up cable inside ready for use at a later date then the 47mm variety is best.

Where the wall is hollow - so timber frame or metal studding with a skin of plasterboard - then you'll use Dry Lining Boxes such as these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/appleby-1-gang-35mm-dry-lining-box/44827 Once again, they come in a variety of depths.

Keep your eyes open for the Black Friday deals. You'll need to do your research though on any models on offer to make sure you don't end up buying a pup.

If you want to talk seriously about some used gear then send a private message.

 

[Adam182]

For fixing single gang sockets in to plastered and dot-n-dab boarded walls you or your spark with use metal knockout boxes such as these. https://www.screwfix.com/p/appleby-galvanised-steel-knockout-box-1g-25mm/79195 They come in different depths ranging from the thinnest at 16mm to the deepest commonly available at 47mm. If you're coiling up cable inside ready for use at a later date then the 47mm variety is best.

Where the wall is hollow - so timber frame or metal studding with a skin of plasterboard - then you'll use Dry Lining Boxes such as these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/appleby-1-gang-35mm-dry-lining-box/44827 Once again, they come in a variety of depths.

Keep your eyes open for the Black Friday deals. You'll need to do your research though on any models on offer to make sure you don't end up buying a pup.

If you want to talk seriously about some used gear then send a private message.

Thanks for the info, I was just wondering about the architrave boxes because they are half the width of a single gang backbox and would look much neater if a speaker wasn't on the wall for some time.

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p5...s6uPEQG_T2lvIvejsB52P77ZOV0kar8kaAtJ_EALw_wcB

Heres my potential positions for the speakers (I think the Sub and Centre will be good where they are), I'm thinking of running wire for a future 5.1.2 ATMOS setup if that makes any difference (regards to the 5.1 part of the layout) Any feedback on which positions to go for would be greatly appreciated. Also it would be great to discuss about used gear so expect a PM shortly.

 

[Lucid]

The room layout with the sofa against the back wall means you won't be able to get a pair of Atmos speakers overhead behind the sofa for a 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 layout. Unless moving the sofa forward is a possibility then your best option in that room is a 5.1.2 layout.

If the diagram is accurate then your seating is off centre; shifted right, but the rest of the room looks fairly symmetrical. The blue hatched area shows the permissible range for fitting the Atmos Left and Atmos Right in-ceilings.

 

[Adam182]

The room layout with the sofa against the back wall means you won't be able to get a pair of Atmos speakers overhead behind the sofa for a 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 layout. Unless moving the sofa forward is a possibility then your best option in that room is a 5.1.2 layout.

If the diagram is accurate then your seating is off centre; shifted right, but the rest of the room looks fairly symmetrical. The blue hatched area shows the permissible range for fitting the Atmos Left and Atmos Right in-ceilings.

View attachment 129620

Thanks for taking the time with that diagram, your are right the Sofa will only be slightly off centre not nearly as much as my diagram suggests. can I ask is the ''A'' value a specific distance, if not would there be an optimal distance from the wall.

Thankyou again Lucid you have been fantastic.