Hooking up a cold rad to 80C water

[Corgigrouch]

Suki, what you propose is called a thermal store, I fitted one last week. It is fed by a log burner and an oil burner and feeds DHW, central heating and swimming pool..

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

But But why do you want to dump heat at 80 to the heating.

What you are talking about is a thermal store and it's nothing new.

My wind up spidey senses are tingling.

Well! Please correct me if i'm wrong but from what I understand is that most boilers pump water at about 80 or 82 degrees and there is a loss of 10 degrees throughout the heating cycle. but that 80 degrees is quite slow.

If i can pump 80 degrees ready in a store straight to a heating system. that might affect the radiators in some way.

The problem Im having here is that I can not find any boiler that uses a similar system.

Can you name me or post a link to a boiler that stores water at 80 or 70 i'd like to know how that works.
because you have mentioned couple of times that its not different from any store. I'm assuming you know about certain boilers that store Heating water.

Keep it coming
Cheers.

 

[JohnD]

you're not willing to answer the question, then?

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

Suki, what you propose is called a thermal store, I fitted one last week. It is fed by a log burner and an oil burner and feeds DHW, central heating and swimming pool..

hello,

Damn! I had no idea. i thought when you say "thermal store" you mean a cylinder connected to a usual boiler that stores really hot water ready to use.

so from what you are saying i assume that a Thermal Store is type of boiler that is entirely different from a normal boiler.

Can you please name me one that does something similar.

Kind Regards

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

sounds a bit like a school project with the homework being done by others

hahaha.

Please forgive me. I am here because I couldnt find any info anywhere.

I dont understand why we have a ramp up time in the first place.

I believe if we can get rid of this ramp up we can heat up space quicker than usual.

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

teapot.

cold.

boiling water poured into it.

Damage? Nil.

Do it dozens of times a day.

Hmm. that is a really good example and yea it happens everyday. but im wondering if It is enough to prove that nothing will happen. because some radiators creak with just 60 or 70 degrees. i've never heard a creak in a teapot.

Cheers

 

[JohnD]

But But why do you want to dump heat at 80 to the heating.

What you are talking about is a thermal store and it's nothing new.

My wind up spidey senses are tingling.

well go on then, answer please.

 

[Onetap]

Well! Please correct me if i'm wrong but from what I understand is that most boilers pump water at about 80 or 82 degrees and there is a loss of 10 degrees throughout the heating cycle. but that 80 degrees is quite slow.

It used to be 82degC (180 degF) flow 71 (160 degF) degC return; now it's usually 70 degC F, 50 degC R.

I can't see any reason why you'd want to circulate water at 80 degC.
It wouldn't damage a radiator.

If you had the heating flowing continuously during the hours of occupation, and regulated the room temperature by modulating the flow temperature, there's no clicking or creaking, except on start-up. Most heating systems creak when the thermostat closes and the heating starts circulating (pump starts, zone valve opens, etc..).

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

Well! Please correct me if i'm wrong but from what I understand is that most boilers pump water at about 80 or 82 degrees and there is a loss of 10 degrees throughout the heating cycle. but that 80 degrees is quite slow.

It used to be 82degC (180 degF) flow 71 (160 degF) degC return; now it's usually 70 degC F, 50 degC R.

I can't see any reason why you'd want to circulate water at 80 degC.
It wouldn't damage a radiator.

If you had the heating flowing continuously during the hours of occupation, and regulated the room temperature by modulating the flow temperature, there's no clicking or creaking, except on start-up. Most heating systems creak when the thermostat closes and the heating starts circulating (pump starts, zone valve opens, etc..).

Your last para was not visible for some reason .

I believe if i put really hot ware through the rad .I will heat up the room quickly( almost instantly)

I believe If i start selling a product with an "instant space heating" feature. People would buy it.

I havent calculated anything in this case. In real life that may take longer but still it'd be quicker than any other boiler.
Please let me know what you think.

Kind Regards

 

[JohnD]

do you mean you are asking these questions because you have an interest in making claims for a heating system you hope to sell?

How do you intend to heat the water that you intend to pump round the radiators, and how long do you think it will take for your thermal store to become hot?

It is not true that a cold room with a hot radiator in it, suddenly becomes a warm room.

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

do you mean you are asking these questions because you have an interest in making claims for a heating system you hope to sell?

How do you intend to heat the water that you intend to pump round the radiators, and how long do you think it will take for your thermal store to become hot?

It is not true that a cold room with a hot radiator in it, suddenly becomes a warm room.

Well lets say that I work for a company that is researching on doing so.

Do you think pumping 80 or 90 degree over a short period water would do any better than pumping 70 degrees over a long duration.

cheers

 

[Onetap]

I believe if i put really hot ware through the rad .I will heat up the room quickly( almost instantly)

I believe If i start selling a product with an "instant space heating" feature. People would buy it.

I havent calculated anything in this case. In real life that may take longer but still it'd be quicker than any other boiler.
Please let me know what you think.

Kind Regards

I think there's so many disadvantages to your idea that it would it would take months to list them all.
It appears (to you) to be a good idea, but you do not have the specialist knowledge or experience to anticipate the many disadvantages.

Look up 'mean radiant temperature', for a start. You'd bring the air temperature (but not the MRT) up to the setpoint much quicker with a convector heater. Or reach the MRt (but not the air temperature setpoint) with a radiant heater.

I once thought it might be a good idea to circulate chilled water through a heating system to provide cooling in summer. With the benefit of some years experience, I know you could, BUT................................

It is a big 'BUT', in both cases.

 

[kbdiy]

Surely the rads are going to contain cold water to start with so there will never be a 'sudden' influx of hot water as there will inevitably be a mixing of hot and cold as the circulation starts up. I can't see how you can suddenly dump hot water into the rads. They can't be empty as this would just create a massive airlock.

Unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious?

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

Surely the rads are going to contain cold water to start with so there will never be a 'sudden' influx of hot water as there will inevitably be a mixing of hot and cold as the circulation starts up. I can't see how you can suddenly dump hot water into the rads. They can't be empty as this would just create a massive airlock.

Unless I'm missing something blindingly obvious?

I understand what you have just said. that there is always gonna be water inside it.

lets say that water is at 10 or 15 degrees.
would that damage the radiator if inject 80 or 90 degree hot water using a high speed pump.

Would that make any difference to the time it takes to heat the room

cheers..

 

[sukhjeetgrewal]

I think there's so many disadvantages to your idea that it would it would take months to list them all.
It appears (to you) to be a good idea, but you do not have the specialist knowledge or experience to anticipate the many disadvantages.

Look up 'mean radiant temperature', for a start. You'd bring the air temperature (but not the MRT) up to the setpoint much quicker with a convector heater. Or reach the MRt (but not the air temperature setpoint) with a radiant heater.

I once thought it might be a good idea to circulate chilled water through a heating system to provide cooling in summer. With the benefit of some years experience, I know you could, BUT................................

It is a big 'BUT', in both cases.

Well I am here on this website to find out all those disadvantages related to this idea. At the moment I dont have any knowledge but reading your questions and answers I think I will make this work or improve.

thanks for the info on MRT I will do a bit of research and see how this affects my project.
please let me know if there are any more things involved in space heating process

thanks a lot[/quote]