Horse power, why do we need so much?

[motorbiking]

Not to mention 3 speed auto vs 8 speed autos.

 

[Burnerman]

The most powerful bike I've had was a Honda VFR 1200 on a 62 plate.....180 BHP. (Crankshaft.)
Top gear.....dial in any speed you could stand, no gearbox necessary. That's horsepower but bye bye license!
John

 

[motorbiking]

Its a bit lardy for a rocket ship - though I always loved the VFRs. The new '20 blade looks insane, now thats got some power to weight.

 

[Burnerman]

For sure, the VFR was a long wheelbase hyper tourer and insanely fast!
No more overseas touring for us unfortunately so its cheerio to the VFR 800 (18 plate) and hello to a Triumph Street Triple 756. Can't wait! I assume the front tyre mileage is high because its rarely on the ground!
John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

For sure, the VFR was a long wheelbase hyper tourer and insanely fast!
No more overseas touring for us unfortunately so its cheerio to the VFR 800 (18 plate) and hello to a Triumph Street Triple 756. Can't wait! I assume the front tyre mileage is high because its rarely on the ground!
John

Had the 750 here for a few years, lovely smooth engine.

 

[Burnerman]

Sounds like the original gear driven cam engine, absolutely brilliant!
Mine is the 800 vtec which is a great bike but I'll be riding solo from now on, hence the Triumph for a bit of fun.
John

 

[Avocet]

In the 1970's I towed a 14 foot caravan with a 62 HP vehicle, today I two a 16 foot with a 138 HP vehicle both with low ratio boxes and both seemed to have ample power, the 62 HP Austin Gipsy I used to tow up Sutton Bank and had a couple of gears to spare in low ratio, today caravans banned from that road.

But even for light cars, the Morris Minor 27.5 HP, Standard 8 about the same in 1950's the British cars could do around 60 MPH at 40 MPG except for the fords. The French were getting 60 MPG with their 2CV cars. Today one odd one at 17 HP the G-Wiz but most cars even the early Agila was 64 HP that is more than the old Austin Gipsy however would not like to tow a caravan with it.

The Mini was 33 HP now 189 HP why do we need so much power?

Sorry "need" so much power? Not sure I understand! I "need" power like I "need" chocolate! I had a 1980 LWB petrol Series 3 Landy with which I towed a couple of tons of boat quite happily, using only about 65 bhp. However, it did about 13 to the gallon whilst doing so. If I can now get double the power AND double the economy at the same time, what's not to like?

 

[Avocet]

I think the whole concept of modern cars is a result of some mental aberration, we are paying vast amounts of money for stuff we simply do not need.

We currently have a car full of pointless crap, one of its many useless add-ons is an engine performance display, I doubt in my normal driving I have used more than 40 of its 170bhp We have undoubtedly paid a lot of money to have an engine capable of rapidly accelerating a car full of extremely fat people up a very steep hill. I'm sure a 50 or 60 horse motor would have been more the sufficient

It would be really interesting to know how many mpg cars would be capable of if we had kept to the same proportions and engine outputs of 50 years ago - 100+ mpg ?

Bah! It all started going downhill when they got rid of acetylene lamps... grumble, grumble....

And those bloody namby-pamby electric starters....

However, I do agree to some extent. In the late '80s and early '90s I worked for a sports car company. 300 bhp in just over a ton of car, put us in the "supercar" bracket. These were insanely quick cars in anyones's book. These days, however, nobody buying such a car thinks 500bhp is even worth getting out of bed for!

 

[Avocet]

But in days long gone motorists ( as opposed to car owners ) could manually perform the functions of ABS and ESC to a reasonably acceptable standard.

But they couldn't though. Lots more people died on the roads back then.

 

[Avocet]

I think the catalytic converter caused a big drop in MPG, the lean burn engine was far better.

Not a big drop, but yes, they did make the cars very slightly (a few percent) thirstier.

The trouble with lean-burn was that the NOx emissions were worse. They couldn't deliver the air quality improvements that were needed so we had to go to cats.

 

[Avocet]

I remember my Uncle towing a caravan with a motorcycle and side car, we started with sprite aerial I seem to remember 10 cwt, towed with a Standard 8, moved to Hillman Husky and sprite musketeer, and the thoughts at time was length in feet = weight in cwt. gas lights, no battery, pump was dome in floor, today motor mover, no gas lights all electric so caravan colder so has central heating and a hot water tank, and we made an error, ours was I think 1350 weight and car we thought rated 1500 but is seems year that one was made rated at 1250 so when we realised error mad dash to find a new tow car.

I remember my mini had ball on front and rear, tow bar home made, well at work, and towed a boat, which was why ball at front, had to drive down a lane pushing boat to launch, no where to turn around, far easier with ball on front.

Today that would all be illegal, so much has changed, bumping cars are now dodgems and road cars are made to withstand bumping.

On the plus side though, we don't disembowel as many pedestrians when we hit them as we used to back then!

 

[EddieM]

My 1st car didn't have :-

Power steering,
Fuel injection,
Air con,
Electric Windows,
ABS,
ESC,
Electric Windows,
A Clock,
A radio,
Rev counter,
Fully upholstered interior,
Sound proofing,
5+ speed transmission.

etc, I'm sure there's more but like most entry cars of the era, it was just basic.

 

[ericmark]

But they couldn't though. Lots more people died on the roads back then.

I remember an insurance company survey on how may people died with crashes involving a Volvo car and a Reliant car, corrected to take into account how many on the road, well seem to remember it was all makes, but those two were the surprise, Reliant cars did very well, the Volvo was bottom of the list.

The assumption was Reliant car drivers knew they were vulnerable and were careful, and Volvo drivers knew they were bad drivers and likely to have a crash, that's why they bought a Volvo which was claimed to be super safe.

Today it is the large 4 x 4's, some do need them, but many have them because it protects them, if they hit a small car they assume they will survive, and people in small car die instead.

Even with tour de France at the speeds they travel there are not many deaths on push bikes when they crash, but no side impact bars, no crush zones, no seat belts, today the big change is noise, we have been trained for years to listen for traffic, on my push bike I have a mirror, but can't see behind me without moving my arm out of the way, I listen for cars, I may confirm using mirror or turning head, but sound is main thing, but with electric cars you don't hear them.

 

[Avocet]

I remember an insurance company survey on how may people died with crashes involving a Volvo car and a Reliant car, corrected to take into account how many on the road, well seem to remember it was all makes, but those two were the surprise, Reliant cars did very well, the Volvo was bottom of the list.

My first car was a Reliant! I wouldn't place too much store on surveys, to be honest. Reliants were made in such small numbers that the results would have been statistically unreliable. Given the choice, I now which one I'd rather be driving if the worst happened!

The assumption was Reliant car drivers knew they were vulnerable and were careful, and Volvo drivers knew they were bad drivers and likely to have a crash, that's why they bought a Volvo which was claimed to be super safe.

Today it is the large 4 x 4's, some do need them, but many have them because it protects them, if they hit a small car they assume they will survive, and people in small car die instead.

That's a variation on the "spike in the middle of the steering wheel" theory. I think there's some truth in it, but the reality is more complicated. The "bottom line" is that fewer people die and are seriously injured in road accidents now than then.

Even with tour de France at the speeds they travel there are not many deaths on push bikes when they crash, but no side impact bars, no crush zones, no seat belts,

I'm guessing that being on closed roads helps a bit! You could say all the same things of Moto GP, in fact, I think they've got an even better safety record than cycling Grand Tours over the last 5 years or so? However, to try and extrapolate that to road cars is meaningless.

today the big change is noise, we have been trained for years to listen for traffic, on my push bike I have a mirror, but can't see behind me without moving my arm out of the way, I listen for cars, I may confirm using mirror or turning head, but sound is main thing, but with electric cars you don't hear them.

yes, I have that trouble too. I live in a hilly, rural area and going downhill, the wind noise is such that I often can't even hear ICE-engined cars behind me! Electric cars will soon have to start being fitted with acoustic noise generators. That will help a bit, but they won't be any louder than a conventional car.

 

[ericmark]

Yes my son had some thing walk out in front of him while driving his Jaguar XE and it walked off never to be seen again, clearly the Badger did survive, but the damage to car where the pedestrian protection kicked in was massive. And car had to be collected on a wagon.

It was the Badgers fault but it failed to leave contact details, maybe did not want to pay for transport to vets, I know pedestrians can be charged for the ambulance with a RTA.

But yes cars don't make as much noise, but the Stanley Steamer was not that noisy, but not of course an ICE car, but cars have been made quiet for years, but not the the extent of electric cars, and really electric cars are partly ICE anyway as the power stations use combined gas/steam turbines so electric produce with internal combustion engines (ICE) although not the way we think of it.

Find the same with reference to car charging, I charge my cars battery from mains, but car not electric powered. And my two EV's use 13 amp outlets, one an ebike the other a mobility scooter.

Even years ago we had bells on steam powered vehicles when they drove through the street, I am thinking of Welshpool where the train shared the part of the street, today they don't share street but still required to whistle before starting to move. Can you think of the noise if every car had to blow their horn before starting to leave Tesco's car park?