how to get a cupboard-sized fire door?

[JamesHopeful]

I've had a house renovated and extended, and the building regs inspector says I need an FD20 fire door on the cupboard under the stairs as it contains the boiler and is on the protected route.

The trouble is that I can't find any cupboard-sized fire doors available (the existing door is 1560mm x 690mm). Is my only option to shell out for a made-to-measure fire door? If my carpenter were to chop a full-sized fire door to size am I correct in thinking that it'd no longer count as a fire door as its structural integrity had been interfered with?

Also, I assume that given I won't have any smoke detector in the cupboard I shouldn't fit any intumescent seals?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You won't get a made to measure fire door, they don't exist. Your only option is to buy a 'fire door blank' (google it) and cut it down to suit.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The trouble is that I can't find any cupboard-sized fire doors available (the existing door is 1560mm x 690mm). Is my only option to shell out for a made-to-measure fire door? If my carpenter were to chop a full-sized fire door to size am I correct in thinking that it'd no longer count as a fire door as its structural integrity had been interfered with?

Absolutely right! It's not so much the structural integrity in this case, more an issue of whether or not the structure (which includes the lippings, glues, blank, etc) have been fire tested as a whole. That said, in a domestic environment I very much doubt that anyone will ever come and check up on it - in a commercial or public building, however, things are/should be very different.

Whilst BWF-CERTFIRE certification does allow for FD20 doors to be installed without intumescent seals, it does require the doors to be installed very accurately (something which can be all but impossible to achieve consistently on-site especially when utilising existing casings) and for that accuracy of fit to be maintained throughout the life of the door. Because of this BWF-CERTFIRE manufacturers no longer make or sell FD20 doors and have switched to supplying FD30 doors for both FD20 and FD30-rated requirements. FD30 doors (or their casings) are always fitted with either an intumescent strip or a combined cold smoke seal/intumescent strip around 3 sides. So you may struggle to find FD20s from many places (although they are still made)

Also, I assume that given I won't have any smoke detector in the cupboard I shouldn't fit any intumescent seals?

Don't you mean cold smoke seals (brush or rubber wiper type)? See my response above for more detail.

You won't get a made to measure fire door, they don't exist. Your only option is to buy a 'fire door blank' (google it) and cut it down to suit.

Not really - things have changed. I've been fitting made-to-measure fire doors for a few years now. Try Safe Lincs or Just Fire Doors for made-to-measure fire doors (there are more, but those are two I have used). BTW on commercial/public buildings you are absolutely barred from making-up or heavily modifying firev doors on-site. We are probably heading towards the day when all door sets (at least on new build) come in pre-hung, like they already do in the USA. The newest regulations are also pretty strict in terms of door to opening fit with a gap of 2 to 4mm round 3 sides being required for FD30 and FD60 doors and with a maximum gap of 3mm between the door bottom and the floor being mandated unless an approved (i.e. tested and B.S. rated) drop seal limiting the gap to 3mm or less across the door (generally measured at 3 points) is achieved.

I don't work for BWF or any fire door manufacturer, however I was required to train and certify on fire door standards last year by my employers. Hence the bumf.

A bit turgid, I know, but basically:-

- You can't make-up your own doors any longer to be compliant
- The gapping all round needs to be fairly tight
- FD20 doors without intumescent seals but with very tight gapping have been abandoned by one of the two certifying bodies in favour of fitting FD30s with intumescent seals because they are much easier to make compliant in the real world
- You can buy made-to-measure compliant fire doors

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Not really - things have changed. I've been fitting made-to-measure fire doors for a few years now. Try Safe Lincs or Just Fire Doors for made-to-measure fire doors (there are more, but those are two I have used).

They're not really bespoke, they just start off with a door blank and cut it down adding some glazing if required, which if done correctly can be done on site anyway.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

They're not really bespoke, they just start off with a door blank and cut it down adding some glazing if required, which if done correctly can be done on site anyway.

It won't meet the fire regs or insurance requirements, though, which is the point - legally a site-modified/made door isn't "done correctly" any longer. When they cut them down they are using lippings, glues, etc which have been burn tested and the method of working is fully documented. That isn't the case with a site-made item

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It is, that's the whole point, they apply the lippings as per the manufacturers recomendations on site and BC will accept them.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

My understanding is that manufacturers ceased being able to certify doors that way in 2013. The doors now have to meet BS/CE certification standards. To be certified new fire doors either have to have a CERTFIRE sticker on the top edge of the door:

or it has to have something like an IFC certificate/label (UKAS/CE-conformity) which is also applied to the top edge of the door. They labels are very difficult to remove without damaging them and aren't given away to anyone. That's how a fire door inspector can confirm that a door is a fire door. Make your own and it won't have a label. And AFAIK the BC has never had the authority to certify a door as a fire door. This, at least, is what you are told when you do the FDIS training and certification which is now required to allow you to oversee door/casing installation in public buildings (commercials and new build domestics will eventually be rolled into the scheme). As I said - the regs are now much tighter than they were years ago

I'm not saying the OP shouldn't go ahead and do his own - just that the local joiner and BC can no longer say a door is a proper fire door in the way that they once did. As an aside, the last BCO I had to deal with was in the habit of checking the tops of doors using the selfie facility on his phone...... (they were council offices, but it indicates the way things have gone)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The badge is the way an FD is recognized on site but in a domestic setting such as this where the door will not face any further inspection or scrutiny beyond BC approval a cut down blank is fine provided its carried out appropriately, obviously the OP needs to ensure his inspector is aware of his intentions and the receipt for the blank produced as proof for example.