HSE rant.

[vsynth]

Hi, to cut a long story short,

HSE come in and say that machine 'x' is very dangerous and needs fixed guarding although we think it is low risk they give us a notice of improvement which will result in us not being able to use the machine in about 6 months time if the work is not done (prohibition order).

Fixed guarding is installed at a total cost of £60,000, if the rest of these machines are done the cost will end up several £100,000's.

New HSE inspector comes in and listens to our concerns that we think the machines are low risk and fixed guarding makes running/setting them very difficult. They agree with us and suggest much simpler safety requirements costing about £2500 per machine!

This was major expenditure for our small company and I could have envisaged the owners closing the place down since £300,000+ isn't exactly ready change.

I don't suppose the HSE will be re-imbursing us?

 

[seco services]

no but you would make sure you got your moneys worth if you lost your hand

 

[jefoss]

One accident and youll be the first one down to claims direct, then they will send out an assessor, and they will say, would love to help however not got the right fixed guards, bye bye.

 

[holmslaw]

Seems your boss is a bit of a dope, spending 60k when it only needed 2.3k.
I'd be looking for a new job regardless.

 

[vsynth]

Seems your boss is a bit of a dope, spending 60k when it only needed 2.3k.
I'd be looking for a new job regardless.

When threatened with a prohibition order and stating your case time and again with no success I don't think there is much you can do but comply with the order or shut down the factory.

It was only when that HSE inspector moved on and a more experienced one took their place that we finally got a reasonable solution.

The machines are all quite small and not high speed, basically I would class them as less dangerous than something like a lathe or pedestal drill.

The guards the HSE said we had to install were huge (4" box section framed!).

I have seen smaller guarding used when I used to work at a car plant and there were robots inside the guarding picking up half a car and swinging it about!

 

[Shytalkz]

As with most things Elfin Safety related, it comes down to common sense. And if you are "blessed" with an HSE Inspector who doesn't possess much of that, then you're up the creek. It's more often than not the case that it's subjective rather than objective as to how to make something "safe" and, as a species, HSE tends to attract little tin gods who can have their own sense of power (like a certain mod on here), hence you will often get a totally over-the-top demand to comply from them.

 

[mattylad]

AFAIK you did have the right of appeal?

 

[Zampa]

The rule is 'as far as reasonably practicable'...a 60 grand guard doesn't seem 'reasonably practicable' to me

 

[Softus]

When threatened with a prohibition order and stating your case time and again with no success I don't think there is much you can do but comply with the order or shut down the factory.

From a position of no knowledge, I'm struggling to believe that there's no appeals process in place for a case like this.

 

[IJWS15]

Should have spent a couple of grand with a safety consultant to support his case with the HSE. When faced with suitably qualified experts the tin gods tend to be more amenable to alternative ideas.

 

[Cremeegg]

Always appeal - it costs nothing and HSE should have given you details of how to do so with the Improvement Notice - if they didnt the Tribunal might even chuck out the notice.

As others have said it's "reasonably practicable" which weighs up risk against ££££.

Always seek a second opinion from another HSE Inspector - they are short on experienced staff and will often send out partially qualified staff who have little if any experience of the real world trying to run a business. Sounds like a more experienced inspector here would have seen some common sense. It can't be that dangerous or else they should have served a Prohibition Notice.

 

[Sylvan Tieger]

When you have a democratic government you have to realize the following

They create positions for their friends.

You blokes have HSE ( ? ) we have OSHA ( Occupational Safety Health Act of 1974)

We have NIOSH (National Institute Of Safety Health) ADA (Americans Disability Act)

Barrier free designs and a host of other government regulations to keep the unemployable behind desks and trying their best to put small companies out of business so they big companies can move their operations to a more business friendly country such as China or India or anyplace that there is not such a burden on businesses.

The liberals then complain about how high taxes are and how large of an expensive it is to be government compliant as taxes also soar.

Citizens of Democratic societies cannot have it both ways if they believe in handouts then everyone has to pay for it one way or another.

As businesses get fined to upgrade equipment and buy safety gear they have to increase the price to consumers thus more tax is added to services rendered and that makes the world go around.

Want to stop this cancer then line up all moronic liberals and put them down like the rabid dog they are.

Safety devices on firearms was something some low life thought up for the military and the weapon could only be fired when the right "finger print" was applied to it.

The only draw back was if a soldier was killed and his comrade in arms needed a firearm and tried to use the dead /wounded soldiers it would not fire (wrong finger print)

It takes a certain type of mind set to make up safety devices only to be told later on it wont work or there is a cheaper way of protecting life and limb.

Many inspectors like police officers have a ticket quota to meet and to be able to justify their salary.

Why not just do away with salary and give commissions only for every ticket they write to make sure all businesses fold

 

[Softus]

What a marvellously well thought out set of views those are.