I think I've well and truely bought the wrong shower - Help

[Marth39]

Boght and installed a Beleize Triton electric shower 9.5 v, connected to the mains pipe under the kitchen sink after the stop cock. Had to attach to the pipe coming up to teh taps as there is no outside stopcock (live in high rise flat). So there is not enough pressure. Someone recommended fitting a pump to the tank pipes,but then says that I will need an independant pipe running to the tank. Thats not possible due to the tank being on the roof of the block and serving the whole block. So I think i'm done for.

I have a big hot water tank in my flat on econonmy 7, but even if I ditch my brand new shower and buy another I will still have the same problem with the tank independant pipe?

Do I have any options at all?

Any help really really appreciated. Bought shower last summer in the heat wave and have yet to get it working

Marth

 

[tomy]

Your options are a standard mixer valve , a standard mixer valve with a pump or a venturi shower.

 

[simond]

The performance of your shower will depend upon the vertical distance between the communal water tank and the shower's head. If this is insufficient there is very little you can do, other than ebay it.

I would suggest fitting an in line shower hose booster such as the Triton T40i.

This is relatively inexpensive and will not affect other water users so much as a conventional shower pump, which will be difficult to install without creating problems elsewhere.

 

[Marth39]

The performance of your shower will depend upon the vertical distance between the communal water tank and the shower's head. If this is insufficient there is very little you can do, other than ebay it.

.

Hiya I think the tank is at least 7 metres about me, maybe more.
But would I still be stuck as I couldn't run independant pipe work up to it?

What do other people who live in flats do? Do they all use the triton40i or showers like it?

marth

 

[John_D]

Hi
7 metres is about 0.7 bar, I was just looking at a Mira sport 9kw shower and it will work on 0.7 bar. Don't expect it to be fast though. I don't have the Triton details to hand so cannot compare. In tower blocks the mains water is usually pumped up to the kitchen tap and Cold Water Storage Cistern as you are probably higher than the reservoir. (you cannot pump this supply). As the water from the CWSC is not mains it can be locally pumped, to use your existing shower you require a single pump to increase the pressure and flow to your Triton shower. there are 2 options thereafter, A Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump would sense that you have turned the shower on and increase the flow automatically. Or you could turn the shower on and then switch the pump on to increase the pressure and flow. This pump would be connected to the pipe supplying cold water to your economy 7 cylinder. I know of one installation set up this way over 30 years ago and with only 1 metre of head.

 

[Softus]

Your options are a standard mixer valve , a standard mixer valve with a pump,

Correct so far, with the other options being an electric shower containing a pump, or a wall-mounted mixer containing a pump.

...or a venturi shower.

No - this isn't workable because the cold 'mains' pressure is too low.

7 metres is about 0.7 bar, I was just looking at a Mira sport 9kw shower and it will work on 0.7 bar. Don't expect it to be fast though.

It will work, but the Mira "Elite 2" contains a pump, so is ideal for you. Similarly the Triton "T80Si Pumped", but the Mira is better quality.

In tower blocks the mains water is usually pumped up to the kitchen tap and Cold Water Storage Cistern as you are probably higher than the reservoir. (you cannot pump this supply).

To be pedantic, you can pump it up to 12 l/min, and over that you need written permission from the water company. However, in a block of flats you might well need permission from the freeholder.

there are 2 options thereafter, A Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump would sense that you have turned the shower on and increase the flow automatically.

In this application, so would a Monsoon positive head pump - it would work quite happily on 0.7 bar input, and would cost less.

 

[Marth39]

Hi
7 metres is about 0.7 bar, I was just looking at a Mira sport 9kw shower and it will work on 0.7 bar. Don't expect it to be fast though. I don't have the Triton details to hand so cannot compare. In tower blocks the mains water is usually pumped up to the kitchen tap and Cold Water Storage Cistern as you are probably higher than the reservoir. (you cannot pump this supply). As the water from the CWSC is not mains it can be locally pumped, to use your existing shower you require a single pump to increase the pressure and flow to your Triton shower. there are 2 options thereafter, A Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump would sense that you have turned the shower on and increase the flow automatically. Or you could turn the shower on and then switch the pump on to increase the pressure and flow. This pump would be connected to the pipe supplying cold water to your economy 7 cylinder. I know of one installation set up this way over 30 years ago and with only 1 metre of head.

Thanks for that. So I would need the Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump, and I would need to connect it to the tank fed pipe that runs into the hot water tank which is in the flat. I did first have it connected to the tank fed cold water pipe under the bath, before it fed the bath. is that the same pipe that would feed the economy 7 tank in my hall?
Am I on the wrong track? sorry so sounding dim, but i've tried reading so much that I've confused myself.

Marth

 

[Softus]

So I would need the Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump...

The positive head model will be adequate for you.

I did first have it connected to the tank fed cold water pipe under the bath, before it fed the bath. is that the same pipe that would feed the economy 7 tank in my hall?

Yes.

 

[Marth39]

So I would need the Stuart Turner Monsoon Single negative head 2 bar pump...

The positive head model will be adequate for you.

I did first have it connected to the tank fed cold water pipe under the bath, before it fed the bath. is that the same pipe that would feed the economy 7 tank in my hall?

Yes.

Many thanks for your reply. So I had capped the t bar pipe under the bath, when I reconnected to the mains under the sink. So I could just uncap this and attach the pump, then from the pump reattach the pipes to the shower and get the electrician to wire it up?

Suz

 

[ChrisR]

connected to the mains pipe under the kitchen sink after the stop cock. Had to attach to the pipe coming up to teh taps as there is no outside stopcock (live in high rise flat). So there is not enough pressure.

Hang on a minute. The mains to the kitchen cold tap in tower blocks is usually pretty decent pressure. The pressure doesn't depend on where you connect, but the FLOW does. So HOW did you connect to the pipe, and what was the result?

Measure how fast you get a (say) 9 litre bucket of water out of your kitchen cold tap.
Electric showers only take about 4 litres per minute

 

[Marth39]

connected to the mains pipe under the kitchen sink after the stop cock. Had to attach to the pipe coming up to teh taps as there is no outside stopcock (live in high rise flat). So there is not enough pressure.

Hang on a minute. The mains to the kitchen cold tap in tower blocks is usually pretty decent pressure. The pressure doesn't depend on where you connect, but the FLOW does. So HOW did you connect to the pipe, and what was the result?

Measure how fast you get a (say) 9 litre bucket of water out of your kitchen cold tap.
Electric showers only take about 4 litres per minute

Hi thanks for your reply. The bathroom is next door to the kitchen, with the bath on the otherside of the dividing wall. we ran a pipe down the wall from the shower unit then alongside the bath, used a bendy pipe to go around the corner, through a gap in the wall and then straight along the back of the sink in a straight line, before attaching to a t bar joint just above the stop cock under the sink. We used 150 mil pipe. Just done the bucket thing and it took 30 seconds.
Sorry forgot to add that the result was that the low pressure indicater lights just comes on straight way and we only get cold water. Have checked the inlet pipe and the showerhead.

 

[Softus]

Well, thanks to ChrisR (embarrassingly), the symptoms are finally emerging.

Marth39 - did you measure that flow at the inlet to the shower? If you did then it seems that you have a faulty shower unit. If you didn't, then you need to.

 

[ChrisR]

9 litres in 30 seconds is pretty decent flow, from a kitchen tap. If the pressure was really low I doubt you'd get that much.

WHat I'm suspicious of is

a t bar joint

Now do you mean one of these:

or something like this self-cutting tap ...

or

?

Question is, whether the connection is restricting the flow. To find out, disconnect the shower (clean its filter out!) and see what the bucket thing test gives you from the pipe - it should be much the same as at the tap.

 

[Marth39]

Hiya, thanks for your replies. Sorry I didn't reply earlier but I've just got in from work. The joint I meant is the top one.

I will disconnect the pipe from the shower as soon as I can and test the rate there. From the output of the shower when fully turned to cold I'm guessing it won't be anywhere near as fast as from my kitchen sink.

Many thanks to all. i really appreciate all the help

Marth

 

[Softus]

From the output of the shower when fully turned to cold I'm guessing it won't be anywhere near as fast as from my kitchen sink.

Tip: the more guesses you make, the longer it will take you to find the problem.