ICE told to get the eff out

[motorbiking]

The NY Times say that the chest shot and the arm shot weren't fatal. But that the bullet which went straight through the left temple and came out through the right temple was the fatal one. It looks like that must be the third shot:

View attachment 405640

How can you know it was the third shot.
It makes a good news story to suppose it was. But the evidence points to 3 or 4 shots fired rapidly together.

A bullet entering the chest and missing all major organs could easily be one fired side on.

 

[MNW67]

Irrelevant

So, that's a yes from you!

 

[Highway Man]

In a fire fight, you might let off a full magazine or multiple magazines at a target, it makes no different which number round has either killed or injured the target. It makes no odds if you may or may not be in danger after the first or 33rd shot. Once the shooting begins you stop when you feel safe to do so,

 

[MNW67]

In a fire fight, you might let off a full magazine or multiple magazines at a target, it makes no different which number round has either killed or injured the target. It makes no odds if you may or may not be in danger after the first or 33rd shot. Once the shooting begins you stop when you feel safe to do so,

This wasn't a fire fight!

 

[Highway Man]

This wasn't a fire fight!

Same thing, the firing had begun, she wasn't firing back but she started it off by using her car as a weapon

 

[MNW67]

How can you know it was the third shot.
It makes a good news story to suppose it was. But the evidence points to 3 or 4 shots fired rapidly together.

A bullet entering the chest and missing all major organs could easily be one fired side on.

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

 

[motorbiking]

That isn't true. The law and rulings specifically say not to fire at escaping vehicles. Your argument is essentially that, because the agent had wounded Renee, he had to finish the job to protect others. You will not find any guidance or ruling which agrees with that.

This is an argument you are making not me.

I have stated clearly, he is in danger and opens fire, the decision to fire was one single process. He let off 3 or 4 rounds in about a second.

The case law shows - 2 of which have been discussed here, number of shots is broadly irrelevant if they were fired in one go. Decision to fire must be based on a threat. The assessment must be based on facts at hand, no hind sight and broad allowances for dynamic situations.

 

[Highway Man]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Doesn't matter. The ice agent would not have known this in the moment

 

[MNW67]

This is an argument you are making not me.

No, it was you.

The danger was over when the vehicle was halted. A person who has been shot and is "in charge" of a moving vehicle poses a danger to everyone, that is obvious.

 

[Highway Man]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Can you accept the fact that analysing something with scrutiny after the event is totally different to what happens during the event?

 

[motorbiking]

Because the bullet went straight through the left temple and out of the right temple. Only the third bullet could have done that.

View attachment 405644

Did the autopsy find the round?
Did the autopsy know that her head was facing the shooter or turned away. If as you say she had just taken one to the arm and chest, you don’t think her head would have moved.

You are being unrealistic in your expectations of the autopsy, not to mention her legal team have only released the bits they want.

 

[motorbiking]

No, it was you.

This is what you said

Your argument is essentially that, because the agent had wounded Renee, he had to finish the job to protect others.

He fired 3 or 4 shots in about 1 seconds. Killing her.

 

[MNW67]

Can you accept the fact that analysing something with scrutiny after the event is totally different to what happens during the event?

Of course I can. I am willing to do both.

 

[motorbiking]

It clears up one thing.

Headshot was fatal, no point in doing CPR or first aid.

 

[Highway Man]

Of course I can. I am willing to do both.

Then on that basis you should be able to see that a car on icy roads accelerating towards the agent and making contact with him was not being driven in a controlled manner and he would have been fearful for his life or serious injury.