ICE told to get the eff out

[Highway Man]

the bloke who got shot. That’s his wife. wife you can see where he gets it from.

 

[MNW67]

Towards a car?

Towards the occupants, I believe.

There was another discussion about the difference between assault and battery a few months ago.

Assault in a technical sense means putting somebody in fear that they are going to experience violence. So, I think the argument is that, by spitting on the car, Alex made the agents fear that they were about to experience violence. Obviously, they knew they were protected by the glass. That is where it gets confusing. Is the argument that the agents might have feared that the spitting was a prelude to further violence.

 

[Highway Man]

Towards the occupants, I believe.

There was another discussion about the difference between assault and battery a few months ago.

Assault in a technical sense means putting somebody in fear that they are going to experience violence. So, I think the argument is that, by spitting on the car. Alex made the agents fear that they were about to experience violence. Obviously, they knew they were protected by the glass. That is where it gets confusing. Is the argument that the agents might have feared that the spitting was a prelude to further violence.

Yes you mean like kicking their rear light in. That’s pretty violent.

 

[MNW67]

Yes you mean like kicking their rear light in. That’s pretty violent.

But that violence was against the car. Are we arguing that it also put the agents in fear of violence. If they were so scared, why didn't they just drive off. It is all a bit tricky, legally.

 

[Highway Man]

But that violence was against the car. Are we arguing that it also put the agents in fear of violence. If they were so scared, why didn't they just drive off. It is all a bit tricky, legally.

If you are sat in your car and someone was spitting at you at the window then proceeded to kick your rear light in. Would you feel safe and think he is only taking out his frustrations on my car and my window it isn’t me

 

[MNW67]

If you are sat in your car and someone was spitting at you at the window then proceeded to kick your rear light in. Would you feel safe and think he is only taking out his frustrations on my car and my window it isn’t me

That is what I have been arguing. It depends on context. A woman by herself probably would have felt threatened. But does the same apply to four heavily armed men in full combat gear.

 

[motorbiking]

Towards the occupants, I believe.

There was another discussion about the difference between assault and battery a few months ago.

Assault in a technical sense means putting somebody in fear that they are going to experience violence. So, I think the argument is that, by spitting on the car, Alex made the agents fear that they were about to experience violence. Obviously, they knew they were protected by the glass. That is where it gets confusing. Is the argument that the agents might have feared that the spitting was a prelude to further violence.

But that violence was against the car. Are we arguing that it also put the agents in fear of violence. If they were so scared, why didn't they just drive off. It is all a bit tricky, legally.

That is what I have been arguing. It depends on context. A woman by herself probably would have felt threatened. But does the same apply to four heavily armed men in full combat gear.

Are you talking about here or there?

where are you getting. this fear of violence from?

 

[MNW67]

where are you getting. this fear of violence from?

Common assault requires that the victim fears (or apprehends) immediate, unlawful violence.

 

[motorbiking]

Common assault requires that the victim fears (or apprehends) immediate, unlawful violence.

Spitting is considered a physical act of force.

 

[MNW67]

Spitting is considered a physical act for force.

Assault is about being put in fear that the physical act of force might be applied to you. If someone swings a punch at you and misses, that is still an assault, because you are in fear that the punch might hit you. Likewise, if someone spits at you and misses, that is still an assault.

But if you are behind a glass window, you know the spit can't actually hit you. You are not in fear of it hitting you. So, how can it be an assault.

 

[motorbiking]

This is battery. I thought you understood that?

In any case people have been convicted here and there when the Spit hits a helmet visor, riot shield or shoe

 

[MNW67]

This is battery. I thought you understood that?

In any case people have been convicted here and there when the Spit hits a helmet visor, riot shield or shoe

It didn't hit anyone or any item they were wearing or holding. So, it can't be battery. It hit the car.

I did wonder whether there is an argument that the mind can play tricks. So, even though you know logically that a glass window will stop any spit, it might still startle you. And that might be enough for assault.

The other factor I was thinking about was the one I mentioned above to HWM. It might be the case you are protected from the spit itself. But what if you feared that was just a prelude to other violence.

 

[SPLINE]

It didn't hit anyone or any item they were wearing or holding.

Were you there?

 

[motorbiking]

It actually doesn't matter - even in the UK, those acts would get you locked up.

 

[motorbiking]

Video shows ICE shooting victim in clash with agents a week before his death

Footage from The News Movement shows Alex Pretti clash with federal agents the week before he was killed

news.sky.com

armed
violent
resisting
assault
vandalism

not that ts relevant to his shooting, but definitely paints a different picture.