Ideal Logic combi 30 pressure loss.

[michaeln2]

Elderly mother had this installed via warm front in December 2010. Been working fine until last week, i have to top up the pressure (to just over 1 bar) almost everyday. Most mornings the gauge is down to zero with the usual "F 1" message on the LCD display.

Checked so far......PRV seems ok & no evidence of it discharging by putting the balloon over it & checking it after a few days.
No evidence of leakage from any of the radiators or pipework.

What i plan to do today is to power down the boiler so it cannot fire up & turn off the heating circuit flow\return valves. Am i right in thinking that if there is pressure loss then it must be a fault inside the boiler?....heat exchanger, for example?

The boiler is just 3 months out of the warranty period....but at the end of January she had a letter inviting her to take out a policy to cover the boiler\ Ch system. I think they are called "XtraWarm", or something like that. Luckily, we took this policy out for her before this fault appeared, but i don't want to call them out before i check the obvious things.

What i have noticed is that there seems to be more vapour coming from the flue than there used to be before this pressure loss occurred.....could this be because it has a leak from the heat exchanger & i the water that has leaked is being vapourised when the boiler is fired?

Any comments\advice appreciated!

Many thanks.

 

[gigz]

Closing the valves will only work if they're not passing (wouldn't hold your breath). Have you checked pipework under the floorboards ? Vapor could look worse because of the cold weather at the minute. If you have cover i would get them out, after all thats what your paying for.

 

[michaeln2]

Thanks for the reply. Not had the boards up as yet as it would be a nightmare of a job with all the junk she has!......but if needs must.

Good point about the cold weather\vapor thing. The reason i am holding off calling them out is,having read the small print of the policy, it gives the impression they will try every trick to not pay up.........it would be easier if they said exactly what the policy "does" cover instead of 3 or 4 pages of what is NOT covered!!
I isolated the flow\return taps before going shopping today (noting the pressure was exactly on 1 bar with the system stone cold).....just checked it now after around 3 hours & the pressure gauge is about quarter of an inch below 1 bar (10psi to be exact).

Thanks again, will keep posted on the outcome.

EDIT, just remembered that i read on a different forum about someone with the same model boiler with the same pressure loss problem.

It turned out that they called Ideal who sent an engineer out......he replaced the condenser trap (IIRC) & all was ok. Also, the boiler in this case was a couple of months out of the warranty period.

 

[michaeln2]

Just to update this.......looks like i will have to call the place i have the insurance with. I am repressurising the bloody thing 3 times a day now.

Have checked all the visible pipework & rad's etc........if it was a leak on the pipework under the floorboards i think it would have at least shown up a few damp patches. If the average ammount of water loss is even as low as (say) 2 litres, then the ammount of times i have repressurised it would surely show up in the form of a damp patch somewhere?

I just visually compared the vapor from the flue on a cold start up with the ammount of vapor from my worcester condenser boiler.........very little vapor is evident from mine. I am thinking it may be a heat exchanger leak.

Just glad we took insurance out for her.

Will keep updated on this in case it helps anyone with the same boiler\problem.

Many thanks & roll on summer!

 

[engineerman]

your heat exchanger is probably leaking the water is going down the condense pipe.
have this checked before you rip up the floorboards

 

[shambolic]

your heat exchanger is probably leaking the water is going down the condense pipe.
have this checked before you rip up the floorboards

This!
Check colour of syphon, if it's dirty brown at all the hex will be gubbed.
Also put pressure up to just under 3bar and remove sump cover to see if any drips. (obviously only do these checks if competent person registered to do so) removing front cover on logic requires inlet pressure, gas rate and telegan readings to be checked as you have disturbed the combustion seal.

 

[michaeln2]

Thanks again, gentlemen.

Had to repressurise this morning as gauge was at zero.

We had appointments this morning, so i pressurised it to one & a half bar & turned the C\H flow & return taps off with the boiler powered down . Came back at 1.30, checked the gauge & it was at zero again. Pulled off the condenser drain pipe & water was slightly dripping from the condenser outlet............not a lot of water considering it had lost all the pressure.

So looks like a heat exchanger leak.......assuming the flow & return isolating taps are shutting of completely (as mentioned by gigz earlier on).

@ Shambolic......aye, i read about the front panel removing thing on these boilers, that's why i have left this side of things untouched. Appreciate the suggestions though.

Bugger it, i will call the place it's covered with to come & have a look.

Thanks again, will keep posted on this.

 

[michaeln2]

Engineer called today. heat exchanger leaking & will be renewed next week.

 

[michaeln2]

Waited in all day for the engineer to call, got to around 4pm when i rang the XtraWarm number. Spoke to someone who said he will find out whats happening & call me back before the day is out. Now past 8.30 & not heard anything.

Feel like ripping the b****y thing off the wall myself.

 

[muggles]

Ah, the old Ideal Logic split hex issue...these things were supposed to be the dog's kahunas and a complete new start for Ideal after the terrible Icos and Isar, you're not alone in having this problem though it seems quite a lot have suffered from this already. Will be interesting to see how long the new Vogues last, wouldn't catch me installing Ideal though

 

[michaeln2]

Made a mistake, its not "Warm sure" the policy is with.....it is with "XtraWarm". Have edited the original post to correct this.

Tried getting through to them again just now with no luck.

 

[engineerman]

same thing xtra warm was owned by eaga as was warmsure,carillion bought eaga

 

[gigz]

Any joy yet ?

 

[michaeln2]

No luck yet. I rang again & the woman on the phone said that the engineer that called in the first instance to check the boiler fault had "Accidently marked the job as being completed" instead of logging it as a fault that required parts. .....nope, i dont believe it either & in my experience it's always the bloke who turns the spanners that gets the blame for someone else,s cockups.

She did say that a part will be obtained from a plumbing centre nearby my area and the engineer will collect it & return to fit it within 24 hours. (this was on Thursday). Message on phone after shopping on Friday stated "We have the part & would i please ring back to organise a date for fitting.".....rang them back to arrange a date & woman on phone said that it will be Monday 21st before the part will be available as Ideal have a backlog of these parts to manufacture.

 

[michaeln2]

Engineer called today & just over an hour later hex was changed. Boiler now has a smile on its LCD display.