Incandescent and LED lighting

[ban-all-sheds]

1.4M results.

Anybody who wants to reverse that isn't half going to have their work cut out for them....

 

[ericmark]

1.4M results.

Anybody who wants to reverse that isn't half going to have their work cut out for them....

I remember the first time I came across drivers, they were it seem designed to ensure all lights had the same brightness, so it was a current to voltage transformer, used to supply aircraft landing lights.

So primary is a current device, secondary a voltage device, so can see how they can be both current and voltage.

 

[winston1]

We wouldn't dream of calling an incandescent lamp/bulb (aka "a filament bulb/lamp") "a filament",

You and I wouldn't but that is precisely what they are called in the aircraft industry.

 

[ericmark]

I was looking at some LED bulbs in the pub tonight, they looked as if they had a orange glowing filament, some also a white filament, clearly designed to look old, but to discribe a bulb as a filament type would include both tunsten and LED.

 

[JohnW2]

You and I wouldn't but that is precisely what they are called in the aircraft industry.

If that's true (and it's certainly not one I've ever heard, despite having had a father who spent his entire working life in that industry!) they are, in my opinion, as guilty of 'ambiguity by abbreviation' as are those who call LED lamps "LEDs" (or, indeed, those who call electronic transformers "transformers"!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

Whilst you and I, and many others, know what they are trying to say, that is extremely badly worded

Yes it is badly worded.

This thread is being taken too far off topic.
==
edit : was

 

[JohnW2]

This thread is being taken too far off topic.

It is.

In terms of the intent of the topic, I fear that the explanation you have given, correct though it is, will probably prove to be too long/technical for many of the general public. I think what they really need is very brief and simple 'bottom line' advice as to what type of power sources they should use for ELV lamps (particularly LED lamps) - and, whatever idealism and some people might think, I believe that such advice would need to make mention of the names/descriptions of products that they are quite likely to see, even if those names/descriptions could be argued to be 'incorrect'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

That is all very, but it means the use of incorrect terms will be encouraged. At the very minimum the correct terms should be used with in brackets something like "often incorrectly called xxx".

 

[JohnW2]

That is all very, but it means the use of incorrect terms will be encouraged. At the very minimum the correct terms should be used with in brackets something like "often incorrectly called xxx".

I don't particularly disagree with that. The important thing is that people are made aware (even if 'in brackets') of what terms they may well see/hear being used, even if those terms are, or may be, regarded as 'incorrect'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

No - it means that terms which you refuse to accept are used, will be used.

"Incorrect" is a judgement call which has no place in any document such as is being proposed here.

Rubbish. Many of these terms are incorrect coined by ignorant manufacturers or distributers.

 

[JohnW2]

Many of these terms are incorrect coined by ignorant manufacturers or distributers.

As has been said, in relation to terminology/vocabulary/language (and many other things) "incorrect" is often not black and white - opinions often vary and it is often a 'judgement call'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

"Incorrect" is a judgement call which has no place in any document such as is being proposed here.

I disagree.
Well it’s tough that you disagree.
==============================================

We aren’t here to change the world, but to try to help people deal with it.

Can we come to a consensus on what people are likely to need, and what they are likely to GET when buying using the commonly used, sloppy terminology?

Bernard, if you can try to exercise your utmost objectivity and edit your post while accommodating constructive comments but without delving into irrelevant subjects, we should be able to get to a useful summary. As was remarked, a more concise version of the original post would be more useful to most non-electricians, who just need something to put their lights on.

Stating that an Electronic transformer is this or that, without explanation, is dumb and unhelpful, and will in due course get deleted. Keep at it, and YOU will be deleted.
Winston please note.

Heating Boilers don’t boil water – get over it and use the term because it works.

Posting rights been restored for another attempt.

DO NOT post to attack other people, your post will be removed and you will be locked out again. ALL please note.
Mod.
===================================================

 

[Lectrician]

Personally I think the write up is too technical.

I would of thought it better to list what is commonly out there, using the terminology seen.

An LED lamp may be designed for direct connection to the standard mains supply found in a house with no control gear being required. These will typically have traditional lamp caps such as BC, ES or for down lights and spots, GU10. The necessary current limiting control gear is contained with in the lamp.

MR16 lamps designed for 12v supplies are historically powered via a 12v wire wound or electronic transformer. LED lamps are now available for these light fittings, the lamps typically rated at 12v AC/DC, meaning they will work on both an AC or DC supply. They have internal current limiting. These will work fine on old wire wound transformer, but will be very hit and miss on the electronic transformers which typically require a minimum load of 20watt to produce a stable output. If swapping a halogen MR16 for an LED type, you may need to factor in changing the transformer for a “constant voltage” type.

There are LED lamps and fittings which require constant current drivers which limit the current through the LEDs. The lamps are wired in series, and will be rated in mA such as 250, 350 or 700. Several lamps can be wired in series with each constant current driver, observing the drivers maximum load.

LED fluorescent tubes could do with their own section!
Describing how they are designed (one lamp cap being Live and Neutral, the other end being a short). The replacement started being a short or a fuse. The benefit of bypassing the old ballast and capacitor. The requirement to bypass high frequency.

 

[bernardgreen]

As was remarked, a more concise version of the original post would be more useful to most non-electricians,

How can it be concise and still mention all of the most common pit falls that most non-electricians will encounter when installing lighting.

I would of thought it better to list what is commonly out there, using the terminology seen.

Using an LED driver ( 750 mA rated ) to power a Low Voltage LED lamp would appear sensible to most non-electicians

The terminology in bold type is considered to be acceptable. LED lamps need an LED driver.

Using a constant current source ( 750 mA rated ) to power an ELV LED lamp is likely to damage if not destroy the electronic circuitry inside the lamp.

 

[Lectrician]

I just think your article is aimed at those in the know. People with a wealthy electrical and almost electronic background. It doesn't help those with limited knowledge, and this being a DIY forum, you would want to be helping those people. Use the terminology that is popular, even if not strictly correct. It's like going back ten years and slapping people for saying "starter motor". No matter how much you tell them it is a bimetallic strip and suppression capacitor to trigger the starting of the tube, and is called a starter, they will not give one shlte, and will carry on calling it a motor.