Incandescent and LED lighting

[JohnW2]

I just think your article is aimed at those in the know. People with a wealthy electrical and almost electronic background. It doesn't help those with limited knowledge, and this being a DIY forum, you would want to be helping those people.

Indeed. I hope it was clear (I'm not always guilty of that )that that is precisely the same as what I wrote (or tried to write) earlier!

Kind Regards, John

indeed indeed JW2, room for both.
======
Fair go at an article Bernard, are you open to suggestions so you can edit or,,,,, would you rather not?
eg the two paras immediately below the picture leave questions "Why, which ones won't be ok?"

How about a list of the most common types of (say) 12 volt lamps/leds/bulbs, and another of the most common power supplies, and what they actually are (which is covered above, use a reference to type#..?), and which to use where?

Which ones work with ancient or modern dimmers, which ones will cause flicker? Much of that could be in a table (inserted image) with Y for Yes, N for No, F for flicker and whatnot?
Well-selected links are useful, this one's nice?:
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048360.pdf
A link or two to examples of lights/lamps PSU eg from Screwfix would be usuful perhaps. This site is Screwfix friendly, apparently....
eg
You can use either the straight link format:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-12-240v-led-constant-voltage-driver/85503
or {url=The Full Link}your text, eg NOT dimmable{/url} replacing curly brackets with square, to give:
NOT dimmable

 

[JohnW2]

Which ones work with ancient or modern dimmers, which ones will cause flicker? Much of that could be in a table (inserted image) with Y for Yes, N for No, F for flicker and whatnot?

I would personally be very hesitant to talk about dimmers for LED lamps at all, other than to say that the whole field is a pretty unpredictable nightmare, and that the nearest to a safe option (and even that not foolproof) is to use power source (if ELV), dimmer and lamp all from the same manufacturer, and all three said by the manufacture to be compatible with one another.

I think anything beyond that would have to be so full of "may work", "may not work", "may flicker", "may not flicker" etc. etc. as to be next-to- useless as a guide for anyone.

However, all of that is, of course, "in my opinion"!

Kind Regards,, John

=====
But it's easy.....http://luxreview.com/article/2016/02/10-things-you-must-know-before-you-dim-led-lamps
Sorted.

 

[JohnW2]

But it's easy.....http://luxreview.com/article/2016/02/10-things-you-must-know-before-you-dim-led-lamps
Sorted.

Faith is, I'm told, a potentially comforting thing

Kind Regards, John

===============
There speaks experience.
You could all sprinkle a sticky post with your fairydust of enledlightenment?

 

[JohnW2]

There speaks experience. You could all sprinkle a sticky post with your fairydust of enledlightenment?

It's not all that easy to un-riddle that, but if you are talking about dimming of LED lamps, I've already offered (above) my personal opinion as to the most (if anything) I would say about the subject in the name of 'guidance'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

They are incorrectly labelled then aren't they?

Do you take issue with boilers?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you take issue with boilers?

I asked Bernard a question along those lines on the Plumbing forum, in reply to his most recent post where he talked about boilers.

It got removed.

It will be interesting to see if the Mods, following the principles of unbiased even-handedness, remove your question.

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard, if you can try to exercise your utmost objectivity and edit your post while accommodating constructive comments but without delving into irrelevant subjects, we should be able to get to a useful summary. As was remarked, a more concise version of the original post would be more useful to most non-electricians, who just need something to put their lights on.

If only it was possible to have a simple guide to enable the DIY

How about a list of the most common types of (say) 12 volt lamps/leds/bulbs, and another of the most common power supplies, and what they actually are (which is covered above, use a reference to type#..?), and which to use where?

A list of "the the most common" would run to several pages and be of no value to someone who bought a less common type.

The explanations of :-

(1) an LED element requires a controlled current from a driver.
(2) an LED lamp is an LED element and a driver suitable for that element ( element may be plural )
(3) an LED driver requires a suitable supply of power
(4) an LED driver cannot be supplied from another LED driver
(5) an LED lamp ( with integral driver ) cannot be supplied from another LED driver

are a guide as to whet cannot be used together to "put the lights on"

It all falls down when the label on an item is misleading about the function that the item performs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

(5) It can be supplied by a constant voltage driver.

Mods - you are wasting your time - Bernard is never going to write an "objective" piece because he will never accept naming of products which he doesn't like.

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard is never going to write an "objective" piece because he will never accept naming of products which he doesn't like.

BAS. It is not a case of names that I do not like. It is names that are so misleading as to the function of the item as to be hazardous.

Ban All Sheds is never going to recognise the hazards created by the mis-naming of electronic / electrical equipment.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps that is only possible when something has been thoughtlessly named in the first place using a common word.

Though as I have said before, does anyone - professional or general public - go into a shop, say "A driver please" and immediately get exactly what was wanted? No, you have to state exactly what you want.

Go into electrical shop and say that, they will ask "What exactly do you want?".
Go into a golf shop and they will ask the same.
Go into a taxi office and they will ask the same.

The same with 'transformer' in CEF or ToysЯus.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Ah, ToysRUs still exist in Portugal...

 

[EFLImpudence]

I am pleased that is the only thing you think wrong in my post.

Of course, it should have been called ToysЯwe.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Of course, but they are/were american, so...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS. It is not a case of names that I do not like. It is names that are so misleading as to the function of the item as to be hazardous.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

(1) an LED element requires a controlled current from a driver.
(2) an LED lamp is an LED element and a driver suitable for that element ( element may be plural )
(3) an LED driver requires a suitable supply of power
(4) an LED driver cannot be supplied from another LED driver
(5) an LED lamp ( with integral driver ) cannot be supplied from another LED driver.

Which part here is the driver?