Is a power flush necessary?

[airtime176]

Hi

I would really appreciate some advice on my best course of action.

Recently (last month or two) we have started noticing ‘kettling’ noises emanating from the boiler area. A BG engineer has added Sentinel X200 and advised that if this doesn’t cure the problem after a couple of weeks then the dreaded power flush will be necessary. Curiously, the kettling has become more violent since the X200 was added, or am I just listening more?

Please can anybody advise whether there are any thing else worth trying before handing over £600+ for a power flush or anyway to try and encourage BG to diagnose the problem further in case the power flush is a waste of money?

I have included below as much info on the system as possible:

Many thanks

Gary

Boiler – Potterton Neataheat Profile 60
System – Open vented with air separator. Indirect domestic water heating and 15 radiators. Normal pipework upstairs, microbore loops to downstairs rads, installation as per Potterton boiler manual.
Pump - Grunfoss 15/60

The house/boiler/pipework is approx. 12 years old

Whenever the system is drained the liquid has a dark tint but doesn’t appear black or sludgy. Since we’ve owned the house a corrosion inhibitor has always been used when refilling the system. After refilling it takes repeated rad venting for a period of a few weeks for all the air to be expelled but once this has been done no further air/gas builds up.

The boiler has been serviced most years. It has had is overheat stat changed 5 years ago and it’s control thermostat (and overheat stat) changed 6 months ago by BG due to repeated overheat tripping (requiring manual resetting).

The system has always been noisy (pump/ water circulation hum) compared to friends systems but I have always put this down to the microbore and the fact that the circulator is located close to the rooms we spend most of our time in. Over the years the noise has become steadily louder. It is loudest when the circulator first starts up and then settles to a quieter level when running. The circulator was replaced 6 months in an attempt to quieten the humming noise (which it failed to do). The removed circulator looked remarkably corrosion free.

Advice was sought (about the noise) when we had the boiler looked at 6 months ago (due to overheat tripping) and the circulator speed was reduced to speed 2, this helped but obviously only relieved the symptom, not affected a cure.

 

[oilman]

A powerflush isn't dreaded. It's a tool to try and rectify problems with a system for a lower cost than replacing parts of the system.

You need not spend £600, you can talk to someone other than BG. I have fixed most of a problem similar to yours by powerflushing, cost £400.

You can have anything you like diagnosed 100%. Problem is, the cost of diagnosis can be more than trying something.

 

[airtime176]

Thanks for the feedback.

When you say 'most' of a problem, can you be more specific?

Cheers
Gary

 

[oilman]

The boiler has a bang now and again, but it doesn't sound like a pneumatic drill trying to demolish the house.

 

[ollski]

Afraid as oilman says sometimes they get to the stage that they need it but shop around they come cheaper. In fact if you feel confident you could hire the powerflush unit yourself and do it.
No company will guarantee there are no leaks following a powerflush though on some systems it is only the muck plugging up the leaks.
Try some boiler replacement quotes you should get a powerflush thrown in with them who knows it may be the most economical way ahead for your system

 

[boxster]

I have 3 words for a power flush WASTE OF TIME.


It causes more problems ..... it causes leaks, it never gets done right, plumber will cut corners, its messy and costs to much!

no wonder he wants to do a powerflush its a nice little days work.

your problem is your heat exchanger needs replacing or repaired?

Do you run your stat on for max or a high setting???

is your hot water hotter than normal?

STAY AWAY FROM POWER FLUSH CONS!

if it sounds like a kettle and bangs like something heavy has just hit the boiler inside, its your heat exchanger . You only need to worry about sludge is when it come out the rad like jelly!

take a rad outside and flush it out, if its only mucky its not sludge.

You can get a new boiler a potterton profile for £600.

FLUSH OUTS ARE BAD NEWS

 

[ChrisR]

Sometimes you need a couple of applications of boiler descaler - try another.

You uough tto be able to get someone to descale the boiler alone, with a flushing machine, but it takes almostas long as doing the whole system. You might get someone to do it for £200 or so - again no gaurantees that it would be 100% effective.

 

[oilman]

It causes more problems ..... it causes leaks, it never gets done right, plumber will cut corners, its messy and costs to much!

no wonder he wants to do a powerflush its a nice little days work.

It might show where the system's integrity has failed, but it has only cleared out the crud tat was blocking the leak.

What do you mean by "..it never gets done right...", never is a long time and you have to justify statements like this.

Plumbers will cut corners....

I am not a plumber, but I powerflush systems where it's justified. Is everyone who powerflushes a rip off merchant then?

....it's messy....

What about taking radiators off the wall then? Is that not messy?

....it costs too much.....it's a nice little days work

I think £110 for 20 minutes work to replace a gas valve is too much, and not having to start before 11am as well, but then what do I know? I would have to spend anything up to 12 hours to flush a system properly and even then it might not clear things completely.

How much would you charge to replace the heat exchanger? and as that's the heart of the boiler, it would probably not be guaranteed if the system is not powerflushed, (unless it's a relatively clean system otherwise and does not need flushing).

FLUSH OUTS ARE BAD NEWS

In my view this statement is unjustified, somehow you have to get the rubbish out of a system or the PRV can't seat again properly if it opens when there's rubbish on the seat. The PRV will open when the expansion vessel fails after years of neglect, and so on.......

Since there are regulations you should meet when you replace a boiler, one of these is ensuring a clean system (according to Benckmark) how do you do that, so the job's done PROPERLY?

 

[oilman]

WASTE OF TIME

Whose time? I imagine it's a waste of yours if you are able, as you say to get £176,000 pa then a mere £400 for a day is not enough, hence the "little" day's work.

It causes more problems ..... it causes leaks, it never gets done right, plumber will cut corners, its messy and costs to much!

no wonder he wants to do a powerflush its a nice little days work.

Leaks? It might show where the system's integrity has failed, but it has only cleared out the crud tat was blocking the leak.

What do you mean by "..it never gets done right...", never is a long time and you have to justify statements like this.

Plumbers will cut corners....

I am not a plumber, but I powerflush systems where it's justified. Is everyone who powerflushes a rip off merchant then?

....it's messy....

What about taking radiators off the wall then? Is that not messy?

....it costs too much.....it's a nice little days work

I think £110 for 20 minutes work to replace a gas valve is too much, and not having to start before 11am as well, but then what do I know? I would have to spend anything up to 12 hours to flush a system properly and even then it might not clear things completely.

How much would you charge to replace the heat exchanger? and as that's the heart of the boiler, it would probably not be guaranteed if the system is not powerflushed, (unless it's a relatively clean system otherwise and does not need flushing).

FLUSH OUTS ARE BAD NEWS

In my view this statement is unjustified, somehow you have to get the rubbish out of a system or the PRV can't seat again properly if it opens when there's rubbish on the seat. The PRV will open when the expansion vessel fails after years of neglect, and so on.......

Since there are regulations you should meet when you replace a boiler, one of these is ensuring a clean system (according to Benckmark) how do you do that, so the job's done PROPERLY?

 

[boxster]

i used to work for a firm that donw flushouts, they never worked. Who the hell is going to pay for a flush out with no gaurentee???

and as for you think changing a gas valve is to expensive, well first its not,

second you cant compare prices to plumbing the worst you can do is a flood.
It takes me 20 mins as i am very quick at what i do it takes the average person around 60 mins. I can change a valve with my eyes closed. When i do a gas job its my name of the ticket. How can you say changing a valve at £110 lab is to cheap.... i cant understand so i assume you made a mistake. To change a valve:

remove fire
remove boiler burner
remove 8 screws
remove electrics
remove supply pipe
re-install

how is this not worth £110.





also it all depends what area your in,
Flushing rads is not messy.... simply drain the system, dust sheet the floor and remove them, flush outs cause problems, but hey why not stick the machine and watch the price go up, sounds like a perfect SCAM to me.

Customers are always funny about plumbers and there wonder ,machines,, dont you watch house of horrors?


besides what has not starting till 11.00am got to do with anything. I decide what time i start , why start early to get caught in all the traffic...
also i may start 11.00 but my phone get turned on at 10.30 so i would say its more of a 10.30 start.

to replace a heat echanger your looking at around £680 labour for four hours work. No you dont need to powerflush a system and you have a gaurentee for a year. If this dont work you dont get charged. I only charge if it fixes a problem

 

[boxster]

also you seem to be under the idea i make a fortune??? is this not what most people make..???

sorry but i dont think 176,000 is not a huge amount... i pay more out that alot of people make in a year , around 38,000 per year i pay in tax insurance ect...

 

[ollski]

also you seem to be under the idea i make a fortune??? is this not what most people make..???

Um.....no

 

[oilman]

......you have a gaurentee for a year

Gas equipment is not much good then, oil boiler manufacturers guarantee their heat exchangers for five years, but they do expect the system to be flushed properly.

....second you cant compare prices to plumbing the worst you can do is a flood.

Yes I can, try an unvented cylinder, they can take houses down just as a gas explosion can, problem is they don't smell first.

... i cant understand so i assume you made a mistake.

At least we have something in common then, when I can't understand I also assume I've made a mistake.

......i dont think 176,000 is not a huge amount.

Something else we have in common.

 

[boxster]

i have no experience in oil boilers so i cant comment, but i am sure you know your field. In the gas industry boilers, fires parts only have a one year guarentee.