Is it possible to get secure UK Oval Cylinders?

[OldKettle]

Hi,
I am looking to replace UK Oval Cylinders on two old aluminium doors.

I am, however, struggling to find cylinders with the same range of security features as many euro cylinders, especially anti-bump features (which I believe is a common attack).

To exactly match the current doors, I need a 27+27 (or 28+28) cylinder and a 32+32 cylinder.

I've found one 27+27 cylinder that appears to be anti-drill

https://www.safe.co.uk/products/cisa-c2000-oval-double-cylinder-27-27-54.html
https://www.cisa.com/en/prodotti/cilindri/C_2000.html

and two 32+32 cylinders, the second which appears to be anti-drill and anti-pick

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...ble-cylinder-32-plus-32mm-satin-chrome-415370

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...plus-32mm-polished-chrome-keyed-alike-8907811

I have also found these, that claim anti-bump and come in 31+31, but they only seem to come with key+thumb turn, rather that key+key (which I would prefer),

https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Locksonline-EPS-High-Security-Key-and-Turn-Oval-Cylinders.html

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[JohnD]

assuming your house actually has a door with a proper lock on it, you have no need to unlock your patio dors from outside. So you can blank off the outside keyhole. Thus, no fancy cylinder required.

I expect you will have bolts top and bottom to prevent the doors being lifted out of the track.

If these are actually your hinged front and back doors, please post pics showing what you can of the mechanism and the key/handle holes. Maybe you could get a modern mechanism to fit.

 

[OldKettle]

Hi John. Thanks for the response.

They are both hinged doors, the front one is a double glazed aluminium porch door and the rear is also double glazed aluminium.

I took the rear door mechanism apart recently to see if I could find a match with a replacement mechanism but couldn't find a size match. Below are some pics.

I also took some pictures of the front door mechanism, but did not dismantle it. This is what I have at the moment, but I can take it apart and measure it too.

There is only a single, central lock on both doors. I had wondered about adding additional locks top and bottom, with euro cylinders, but don't know how to securely fix the mechanism to the existing frame. The original locks obviously screw into integral receptacles in the frame, like these.

 

[JohnD]

Ah, I see it's a Union (Parkes of Willenhall) lock. They used to have a huge range, many still available as old stock.

The case may be in "inch" dimensions.

They might have made that case to fit a Eurocylinder or even a 5-lever lock.

Can you see any part no's on it?

The case colour suggests their "silver" series and the lever handle set might be "Raven"

What's the backset from front of faceplate to centre of spindle and keyhole? Is it the same as a 3G220?

Is the case itself two inches deep?

Not sure if I have an old catalogue somewhere. Search on "Union narrow style sashlock Eurocylinder" (or without Eurocylinder there may be a 5-lever lock)

Sometimes the year of manufacture is stamped on the bolt assembly.

 

[JohnD]

Would this fit?

https://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/willenhall-ep1-euro-sashcase.html

I confess I prefer a 5-lever.

https://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/willenhall-m3-sashlock.html

Or this?

https://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/union-l2224-euro-cylinder-sashcase.html

 

[OldKettle]

Thanks John.

I did look for locks before but I could not find anything that seemed to match the centres on the existing lock.

I wasn't quite sure where the centre is on an oval cylinder, but it would seem to be at least 70-80mm.

I may have found some with those centres but not with the other matching measurements.

The locks you have linked seem to have centres of 48 or 57, so I don't think they would match.

I wouldn't be averse to making adjustments to accommodate a different lock, but my other concern was that the forend length (240mm) is also much greater than the locks I could find, and I wasn't sure if there was any way to work around the lack of fixing points for a shorter lock. In other words how to get around the absence of these in the required location.

 

[JohnD]

I wasn't quite sure where the centre is on an oval cylinder, but it would seem to be at least 70-80mm.

I've never thought about it, but I would think that when the cylinder is fitted, you look at the round rotating plug that the key goes in, and take the centre of its circle. Same as for the spindle, you measure to the centre of the rotating follower.

Locks for metal doors do seem to have strangely long cases. Do any of these fit?
https://www.lockshop-warehouse.co.uk/acatalog/metal-door-locks.html

Some are made with 72mm centres, perhaps it is an old or American size. Not quite three inches.
https://www.doorhardware-online.co....MIy7f3--Xy5gIVhLTtCh0wmw8VEAQYFSABEgKb7_D_BwE

What's the backset?