Is this allowed?

[dave12]

Just done a little electrical job at my work, were an electronics place really. Anyway, this morning two of the light fittings were out (the're flourescent fittings with 3 tube per fitting). They said to organise a sparky to come out and look at it, but I suggested that I would have a look first to see if it was something simple.

It turns out that the two fittings were wired into 1 13amp plug that had a 10amp fuse in. I think the lighting circuit has probably been wired with 13amp sockets all around the building.

So my question is this, Is this allowed? Can you really wire two light fittings of this type into one plug? I think the whole building is like that. Im trying to persuade my boss to put me through my 16th edition so Im looking for browny points.

 

[oilman]

It turns out that the two fittings were wired into 1 13amp plug that had a 10amp fuse in.

Struth!!!!!!! how big were the lights to need a 10 amp fuse? that's over 2kW. The regulations are not really a prescription as to how things must be done, but guidance. There is unlikely to be a prohibiting regulation for the two wires in plug, but it's bad practice. The thing that is prohibitive, is you are unlikely to get two 10 amp cables into 1 plug top, and the fuse is there to protect the cable. You have to assume all the fault current goes down 1 cable, therefore the cable is unprotected because it won't be a 10 amp cable.

If all the lighting is wired to 13A sockets, what do you do for emergency lighting in the event of the lighting circuit failing?

 

[dave12]

The lights were only 36W tubes so am I right in saying that if there are 6 tubes in total, thats 216W, so that should only require a 2 – 3 amp fuse?

As for the emergency lighting, well Im not sure, there doesn't seem to be any in the main lab area (which is pretty big!) the only ones I see are the Exit signs above the door.

 

[supersparks]

Yea but those 13amp sockets might be protected overall by a 6/10 amp breaker, in which case, fine

AR

 

[oilman]

Well, I had written a reply just after supersparks, then the server appeared to shut down, anyone know what happened?

Still, I'll try and remember what I can of the reply.

The fuse is to protect the cable, not the equipment. It would be better to have a dedicted lighting circuit rather than lights plugged into a power circuit. The cable would be sized correctly for the current demand, and a fuse/breaker in the supply to protect the cable.

I accept the firm might have cash flow considerations, but the controlling legislation would be the electricity at work regulations, and hence the health and safety at work act. Breaching this is a criminal offence, but don't put it to your boss too bluntly, he might be the one responsible.

The law works to blame whoever is least able to defend themselves. You need to get some certificates though if you are to do any work on the installation.

 

[breezer]

its only a guess, but they probably used sockets and plugs to make it easier to change the whole fitting if required, or for future alteration.

 

[supersparks]

its only a guess, but they probably used sockets and plugs to make it easier to change the whole fitting if required, or for future alteration.

yea, oilman, what if the 13amp sockets are NOT on the power circuit and the guy who instaled it just dident have any appropriate plugs.... the fittings would be perfectly protected by a 6 amp breaker, but would normaly use a 'clip and lock' plug.....
AR

 

[oilman]

yea, oilman, what if the 13amp sockets are NOT on the power circuit and the guy who instaled it just dident have any appropriate plugs.... the fittings would be perfectly protected by a 6 amp breaker, but would normaly use a 'clip and lock' plug.....

I agree the fittings would be protected by by a 6A breaker, and perhaps I am wrong in thinking the 13A sockets are on a power ring, but if it's a 13A socket, sooner or later someone will plug a 3kW heater into it. Question is, how many fittings are there? dave12 says it's a pretty big lab, which might mean the circuit has more fittings than a 6A breaker would serve. From the original question a 10A fuse is still wrong.

This is a work place installation, and it would be difficult to support the case that the installer used the bits he had, as he didn't have the appropriate plugs, though it may be a hangover from the sixties in the days before all the safety legislation.

 

[masona]

Im trying to persuade my boss to put me through my 16th edition so Im looking for browny points.

What sort of boss have you got?

I once told my old boss years ago in a polite way regarding money to be spend on safely,his comments was " If you don't like it you can................"

Sometime it can backfired...........

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In the words of an airline boss (can't remember which):

"If you think safety is expensive, try having an accident"

 

[IanDB]

Just to throw my 10p's worth in.... Your place of employment is covered by the Health & Safety at Work Act. Under the "Duty of Care" policy, if your boss lets you (an "unqualified" person) carry out out work which results in an accident then he may be criminally liable. To make it worse now that all this correspondance has taken place and you are aware of this fact, if anybody else gets hurt you yourself could be criminally liable.

Of course once you become qualified and then carry out the work, if something goes wrong your boss is in the clear and only you get the blame!

Life's a bitch and then you die!

 

[supersparks]

wouldent you also have to be NIC/ECA also ?

 

[oilman]

..... if your boss lets you (an "unqualified" person) carry out out work which results in an accident then he may be criminally liable.

In practice it may not be this bad. The work has to be done so it would comply with statutory requirements and due diligence must be demonstrated. This can be done by keeping records of what was done, by whom, and when.

wouldent you also have to be NIC/ECA also ?

I think this would be roughly the same.

The boss could check by contacting his insurance company, these are the people who control industry, after all.

 

[IanDB]

Hi, Oilman. I was really trying to emphasise the fact that in the "safety" and comfort of your own home you're not covered by legislation to quite the same extent as the workplace. You're right about the adherence to regulations etc but I've found increasing reliance on the ability to demonstrate adequate training appearing as a necessity. The message is being drummed home more and more that you need to demonstrate that you must have taken all reasonable precautions against accident or else your director goes to jail! Now about that compliance certificate....

To the DIYer the message is think about the implications of what you're going to do before doing it.