Keeping boiler return temp lower as TRV’s close down

Only if such a system as zoning is a requirement.

Zoning in modern heating systems isn't a unnecessary frivolous extravagance, it is becoming essential.
I am not talking about low resolution upstairs/downstairs zoning either.

Seems you have set your mind though so no amount of arguing is going to change it. Hey ho.
 
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That requirement may be easy to achieve when the "smart" system is first installed but can later lead to problems when an increasing use of the wireless channels reduces the reliability of the communication system. How many plumbers / heating engineers have equipment for evaluating radio channel occupancy when attempting to fault find on a "smart" system that has become unreliable.

Even if you have the necessary equipment, and I have a suitable analyser in my workshop, it can still be awfully difficult and time consuming to catch an intermittent signal..
 
Smart TRVs which influence the operation of the boiler require a secure and reliable wireless communication system to be in place.

That requirement may be easy to achieve when the "smart" system is first installed but can later lead to problems when an increasing use of the wireless channels reduces the reliability of the communication system. How many plumbers / heating engineers have equipment for evaluating radio channel occupancy when attempting to fault find on a "smart" system that has become unreliable.

There is a number of answers to this but i cba typing them because its not really a problem.

When i say "really" i do mean really. Not never, not always, but really as in for the vast majority of people. I am sure you will point to some outlier case where there are so many people and devices in a house that bandwidth is compromised and i am sure you will grab onto this outlier case as justification that the whole technology should be binned off and we revert to way trvs and manual gate valves but i can't help you there.
 
Even if you have the necessary equipment, and I have a suitable analyser in my workshop, it can still be awfully difficult and time consuming to catch an intermittent signal..

There is any number of free wifi scanner apps in the app store lol.
Haven't needed to use one since like forever, and certainly not since the advent of mesh technology.
 
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here is any number of free wifi scanner apps in the app store lol.

That proves you lack the necessary basic knowledge of how a wireless communication system can be be put out of action.

A receiver can be blocked ( unable to receive any messages ) yet a scanner shows the channel to be clear. ( no carrier on the receiver's frequency ).

A friend and ex-colleague ( 12 years designing radio communication systems ) was recently asked to assist in locating the fault in a WiFi linked home automation set up.
There was no fault. just a malicious neighbour who was cloning control signals from the WiFi system to disrupt the operation.
 
That proves you lack the necessary basic knowledge of how a wireless communication system can be be put out of action.

Eh? Don't you start Bernard.

I said interfering signals can be very difficult to spot, even with the right equipment. You seem to be agreeing with that statement.
 
well this thread turned into something else LOL!

just going back for a minute to my issue, what do you think the likely cause of the rising return temp the longer the boiler runs for? Even on its lowest modulation percentage.

If it’s something i need to get the gas man out for i will do that, just need an idea as to what may cause it.
 
well this thread turned into something else LOL!

just going back for a minute to my issue, what do you think the likely cause of the rising return temp the longer the boiler runs for? Even on its lowest modulation percentage.

If it’s something i need to get the gas man out for i will do that, just need an idea as to what may cause it.

Back to basic principles - Obviously, the heat contained in the water, is not being consumed, before the water is returned back to the boiler. Which means the flow is too rapid, or more heat is imparted into the water than is needed by the boiler.
 
Back to basic principles - Obviously, the heat contained in the water, is not being consumed, before the water is returned back to the boiler. Which means the flow is too rapid, or more heat is imparted into the water than is needed by the boiler.


Got a feeling that the installers left it on 18kw range. Time for gas man. Can’t run pump any lower as the run is long and the last rads don’t get good flow on setting 1.
 
well this thread turned into something else LOL!

just going back for a minute to my issue, what do you think the likely cause of the rising return temp the longer the boiler runs for? Even on its lowest modulation percentage.

If it’s something i need to get the gas man out for i will do that, just need an idea as to what may cause it.

Perhaps as you say, a variable speed pump may help in maximizing heat loss to the rads remaining open.
Also, would a modern control system with load compensation help? Most modern controls instruct the boiler to modulate i believe.

Best of luck.
 
well this thread turned into something else LOL!

just going back for a minute to my issue, what do you think the likely cause of the rising return temp the longer the boiler runs for? Even on its lowest modulation percentage.

If it’s something i need to get the gas man out for i will do that, just need an idea as to what may cause it.

I think some one has a new broom and a blunt axe :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
What is a zone? When I moved into this house it had two pumps, and no zone valves and DHW was thermo syphon. The plumber pointed out TRV's form zones, but the two pump system did not really work, if we ran the pump for the flat, the house radiators had a low reverse flow, and vice versa.

As already pointed out TRV's have a range, so set at 2¼ may normally heat the room to 20°C, but it would still allow the radiator to heat up if room at 21°C and would not be fully open until 18°C. This is with the liquid sensor, with the electronic sensor the range is smaller, but with a motorised valve upload_2021-12-7_10-48-52.png off is off and also it has a built in micro switch, unfortunately only one with external connections, so I need a relay to have that micro switch work both pump and boiler, but with that micro switch I can turn off the pump and boiler, I can't do that with a TRV. It would have been a lot easier if the plumber had used one pump, but for some reason beyond my ken he left the two pumps in.

I am not sure what name I should use, as clearly a TRV does control a zone, and with electronic heads they are motorised, hence the picture to show the motorised valve, but I don't want cavitation, so when the motorised valve closes I want the pump to stop.

There is no by-pass valve, I would told it will not work with pump on the return? I am an electrician not a plumber, my dad could wipe lead pipes, I have never tried, and don't really want to work with lead, I have no wish to be a plumber, when pipes need altering I employ one, although my pipes are copper, so suppose need a cupricer not plumber? Well no connected together with solder which did contain lead.

But what I am saying the hardware is installed, and as the house holder in the main we work with what we have, and try to alter without causing massive disruption. And every house will be used differently throughout its life. We use two bedrooms and the other two upper rooms are used as an office and a craft room. Visitors use the flat under main house.

And we have now used motorised valves to be able to turn off the flat. But in the main house we use TRV heads to turn off rooms not in used, or select the times when rooms are heated. This allows us without hardware changes to change room use, so what is now our garden room, was first a dinning room, then a bedroom, and all we had to do was change the program for the TRV.

The house before this was open plan, so we could not really change where was heated, the TRV's in that house stopped the bedrooms over heating, we did not have any down stairs. Mothers house again when we returned to look after mother before her death, one down stairs room was her bedroom, and one of the upstairs rooms became our living room. Our first house was hot air central heating so no option all rooms heated, vents in all internal doors to allow return air.

I know I tend to think every house has internal doors, and they are closed, cau'r drws I would get from mother, put wood in hole from father, told we were not living in a barn. We are lazy today, we have got use to central heating, and there is a tendency not to close doors, raising butt hinges are not so common today.

But I still program each room independently for main house, and the electronic TRV head does that well, plus it insures the TRV does not stick by exercising it once a week, so reduces maintenance.
 

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