Kitchen cabinet doors have arrived. Now what?

[shagster]

I'm sorry if this is a frequently asked question, however I now have:

1) 18mm MDF doors with 35mm cups, approx 14mm deep
2) 18mm thick plywood carcasses to fix them to

I believe the expression for where the doors goes in relation to the carcasses is 'overlay', and I want the hinges to be soft-close.

I had just assumed that I could buy the hinges, fixings and a template to drill the holes but it seems it's not so simple as many hinges don't come with fixings.

Since the custom-sized doors cost me an arm and a leg (I have 8 of them to fit), I see no reason to skimp on the hinges, so I was going to get Blum, however the Blum soft-close hinges from Screwfix don't come with the fixings (and they are really expensive from there as well).

So I'd like to know:
1) What fixing is best for the cup into the MDF door? Should I use one of those plastic inserts or just a normal screw?
2) Same question for the carcass, is 18mm ply considered a 'softwood' and therefore in need of a larger screw or plastic or doesn't it matter?

Looking for a one-stop shop that can supply me everything I need if possible.

Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I believe the expression for where the doors goes in relation to the carcasses is 'overlay', and I want the hinges to be soft-close.

I had just assumed that I could buy the hinges, fixings and a template to drill the holes but it seems it's not so simple as many hinges don't come with fixings.

You can either opt for soft close hinges or for standard hinges with soft close pistons which are inserted into holes drilled in the edges of the carcass. Alternatively the pistons can be installed in a surface mount enclosure and affixed to the side of the carcass. Kitchen hinges (Blum or otherwise) have almost never come with screws in my experience, and in any case they can be either conventional countersunk screws or Euro screws which require a 5mm hole depending on the hinge itself. If you feel that Screwfix is expensive then look around eBay - there are quite a few suppliers on there who undercut SFX a lot. I'd also recommend looking at the Julius Blum website where the required fixings for individual hinges are specified as well as looking at their competitors, namely Grass, Salice and Hettich who all make high quality hinges

1) What fixing is best for the cup into the MDF door? Should I use one of those plastic inserts or just a normal screw?
2) Same question for the carcass, is 18mm ply considered a 'softwood' and therefore in need of a larger screw or plastic or doesn't it matter?

Hinges made for Euro screws will require Euro screws. Hinges made for use with "those plastic inserts" actually come with the inserts in stalled in the hinges (they are actually designed for semi-automatic insertion) and will often require CSK HD screws (although I have had them supplied with the screws ready inserted on either Salice or Grass hinges, can't remember which) as will the plainer hinges you see. I'd recommend Hospa screws for installation if your hinges require CSK HD screws - AFAIK they're not available from SFX (I could be wrong) but they are specifically designed for use in kitchen doors, which means solid wood, chipboard and MDF

Looking for a one-stop shop that can supply me everything I need if possible.

In that case ditch SFX!

 

[foxhole]

Fixing supplied to fix to carcass normally designed for compressed board fixing and may not hold as well in ply

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Fixing supplied to fix to carcass normally designed for compressed board fixing and may not hold as well in ply

Which is partly why we have Euro screws and clip-in (non-screwed) hinges, such as those by Hettich

 

[shagster]

Thanks J & K, however all I got out of the thread so far is that I should use 'Euro' screws in ply. I'm unsure what hinges I need to put with them. What size slot am I looking for to determine I've got a suitable hinge that will accept these euro screws? Also, a search for 'euro screw' at Screwfix doesn't give me any screws. I guess that's why you said 'ditch SFX' . When I search for Euro screws on ebay I get a lot of slightly different Euro screws, mainly M6. How do I know which one of these would go best with, for instance a Blum hinge?

Looking another way, I started with the following hinge:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/blum-blumotion-soft-close-clip-on-concealed-hinge-110-112mm-2-pack/67966
There is no part number there, and when I went here:
http://www.juliusblum.com/drawing-files/pdf/
There is no search facility there, it wants a number.

From other threads it seems like I'm not the only one incapable of navigating the Blum website(s).

 

[endecotp]

Ironmongery Direct might be a good place to look.

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/round-self-tapping-cabinet-screw-14mm-pack-100-760368

 

[shagster]

Yes, I discovered Ironmongery Direct last night, by coincidence. Found also:

- https://www.isaaclord.co.uk/
- http://www.trade-hinges.co.uk

Quite some difference in prices between trade-hinges and Ironmongery Direct, e.g. compare:

http://www.trade-hinges.co.uk/hinge-mounting-plate-template-108-p.asp
and
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/blum-mounting-plate-drilling-jig-837074

Seems to be pretty much the same thing but half price at Trade Hinges.

Any of these are better than the DIY sheds, but still a lot of scope for confusion, e.g. it isn't clear under what circumstances you'd choose between the various Blum mounting plates however I decided to go for one with a height adjustment screw since I'm pre-drilling the screw holes manually.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

....all I got out of the thread so far is that I should use 'Euro' screws in ply.

Errr, nope! Euro screws are M6 deep thread and require a 5mm hole. AFAIK they are designed for use in MDF and chipboard where the large, deep thread form gives better holding power. For plywood Hospa screws will be better, I feel, but they also offer good holding power. As to sizes, 3.5mm diam x 15mm is used in 16mm carcassing/doors whilst 3.5 x 17mm is for 18mm thick stuff (the hinge plate itself has depth which reduces the distance into the door that the screw will sink by about 2.5 to 3mm). You need to look for CSK HD BZP (countersunk head bright zinc plated) screws as opposed to passivated ones which are yellow. I've used Hettich hinges which lock-into the 35mm hole without screws and they really do hold well as well as being fast and easy - expensive though. Base (cruciform) plates which fit onto the inner sides of the carcass (on 32mm centres) are available in a number of forms - my personal preference is to go for hinges which are clipped-onto the (matching) cruciform plates. I also prefer cruciform plates with 2-axis adjustments by screw (up/down and in/out) and for standard cabinet with full overlay require 0mm offset cruciform plates. If you make stuff from scratch it isn't that difficult to spec. hinges/plates, b ut it does take attention to detail

Looking another way, I started with the following hinge:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/blum-blumotion-soft-close-clip-on-concealed-hinge-110-112mm-2-pack/67966
There is no part number there, and when I went here:
http://www.juliusblum.com/drawing-files/pdf/
There is no search facility there, it wants a number.

Well, I did warn you about SFX..... And from the look of it that hinge will be OK with Hospa screws

...still a lot of scope for confusion, e.g. it isn't clear under what circumstances you'd choose between the various Blum mounting plates however I decided to go for one with a height adjustment screw since I'm pre-drilling the screw holes manually.

The height of the mounting plates is to allow for different amounts of overlay. A "conventional" kitchen overlay (15 to 18mm on a 15 to 18mm carcass) requires a 0mm height plate, for a "half overlay" (required in some furniture) of 8 to 10mm you'd need to place the hinge c/l further across the door (by 8 to 10mm as it happens) so a mounting plate with a height of about 10mm would be best (bearing in mind that there is some in/out adjustment on the hinge) whilst for a face-frame kitchen where the frame overhangs the carcass requires a much taller mounting plate. It really is all in the Blum technical pages - but I have to admit that you do need the full catalogue to make sense of it (and more than a few hours of spare time)