Kitchen lighting quandry

[Guy79]

Morning all

We are currently having our kitchen redone and am considering our lighting options at the moment. The room is approx. 2.8m long and 2.4m wide with 2.4m ceilings. There is a 1m wide window and external door at one end that faces NE and an internal door the other end.

We are using standard height wall cabinets so there will be about 30cm space between the top of the cabinets and ceiling.

At the same time we are having the walls/ceiling replastered.

The lighting we are considering is:

• fluorescent strips on top of the cabinets reflecting off the wall/ceiling [painted white] to provide ambient light
• led tape strips under the cabinets to provide task lighting
• led plinth lights.

Ideally we do not want to have any light fixtures on the ceiling but my slight concern is that by using the indirect light this will not be bright enough.

Are my concerns justified?

If this can provide perfectly usable lighting, what length strips on each side would work well?

To give an idea we currently have one single compact fluorescent bulb in the middle of the room.

Also to add, our electrician has suggested using the higher powered led tape on top of the cabinets to reflect off the ceilings instead of flouro strips

Any comments and suggestions gratefully received

 

[bernardgreen]

led tape strips under the cabinets to provide task lighting

THis works very well. but do not rely entirely on the adhesive backing as it can after a while fail in the kitchen environment. ( Hot and steamy )

our electrician has suggested using the higher powered led tape on the ceilings instead.....

Self adhesive strips that get warm and painted ceilings are not compatible. They will peel off.

 

[Guy79]

Thanks Bernard

our electrician has suggested using the higher powered led tape on the ceilings instead.....

Self adhesive strips that get warm and painted ceilings are not compatible. They will peel off.[/QUOTE]

My mistake, I have edited the original post now. The led tape would be on top of the cabinet shining up, instead of the fluorescent strips

 

[dsharp7th]

LED tape works great, if you're up for a bit of research and planning you'll get a much better result than flickery flouro strips.

I used it in various places throughout our kitchen project with the result that I hardly use the ceiling downlights at all, although it is nice to know they are there. It sounds like your planned locations would kick out plenty enough to see by though I can't tell from your description whether you have units either side, to provide even distribution of light. I would recommend considering led tape under the edge of the worktop - it looks great (we had the kitchen co cut a channel into ours), and also has the practical effect of illuminating inside the lower cupboards, drawers and dishwasher. I didn't go for plinth lights, as our kitchen guy pointed out they just highlight how dirty your floor is. I had to research, plan, order and install everything from the transformers onwards, as the electrician didn't know the first thing about LED.

I'd offer the following tips:

To get the right light level put in plenty of tape and control the light level with a dimmer switch and dimmable transformer. Varilight V-Pro is the dimmer switch you need. LED strips are not created equal - go for 3528 at 120 LEDs / metre for maximum light without taking up too much width space although where space isn't an issue on the cabinets the larger 5050 tape would be brighter still. (the number refers to the size of LEDs on the strip 3.5x2.8mm or 5x5mm)

To choose the right transformer you need to know the watts per metre of the tape, add it all together with a safety margin and select a transformer in that range.

If you're happy to bite the bullet and order some LED tape with a transformer and bunch of 12V cable, you can loosely 'mock it up' with everything more or less in situ to get an idea of light levels before installing proper.

Work out where the transformer will go (and therefore the lighting circuit wiring), and where to run 12V cables, before second fix if possible, as it might help to plaster in some of the 12V cable, or lose it behind kitchen units.

Use aluminium profiles for mounting below or above the cabinets - this sort of thing https://www.marcled.com/24-led-aluminium-profiles though different sellers sell different styles. You screw or glue them to the surface, stick the led tape inside, fit the diffuser. Hey presto, LEDs don't become unstuck, or get covered in steam or soup, (although you can get IP rated tape). The aluminium also acts at a heat diffuser that prolongs the life of the LEDs, apparently.

Unless you want a green or pink kitchen at the drop of a hat, don't bother with RGBW and stick with white, but make sure you're happy with the colour temperature you're choosing. 2700/3000K "warm" is most similar to traditional filament / halogen light, 4000+K "cool" can be jarring, but works well in a modern kitchen.

Good luck, it's very satisfying when it all works!

 

[Guy79]

Thanks, that gives a lot of useful info.

Both of the longer walls will have complete runs of cabinets at ceiling level, albeit with a couple of bridging units. There are no wall units returning back along the window/door walls, so we would be able to have lights from one end to the other running parallel on either side of the room.

 

[ericmark]

I looked at fluorescent v LED and the results weren't quite as expected. The good quality fluorescent output is around 95 lumen per watt v LED around 100 lumen per watt, however poor quality fluorescent still 80 to 90 lumen per watt but LED can drop to 40 lumen per watt so one has to be very careful with the LED product selected. If it does not give lumen output reject it as likely very poor and only for decoration. As to LED tube v fluorescent tube output is not enough to worry about 95 ~ 100 lumen per watt is nothing. But the fluorescent has two problems a 5 foot tube is 68W there is basic no option if you want 5 foot to get spread of light then 5800 lumen even if 2400 lumen would do. Second slow start, using HF ballast does help but still the LED is quicker to start. However lumen per £ the fluorescent is far cheaper even if using HF ballast.

So putting a fluorescent out of sight so the light reflects from the ceiling using a 5 foot tube you are well over the light required so even with the losses bouncing off the ceiling it is still very bright. Do the same with LED likely the lumen output will be well down on the fluorescent tube and may struggle to give out enough light. However put the fluorescent in centre of the room and it is really over kill and far too bright, using a LED tube with 2400 lumen is ample as direct lighting the 5600 lumen from the fluorescent is over kill.

After 10 year the LED's and fluorescent will need renewing using a HF ballast a fluorescent tube has about same life as an LED. To renew LED lighting you need to renew the whole lot, to renew fluorescent you just swap the tube less than a fiver.

Both LED and fluorescent are good, which you use depends how used. But LED strip can vary for 40 to 100 lumen per watt, even less than 40 with colour changing. So one has to be very careful what is selected, some many of the LED strips are just to look nice and are not really functional. Do read carefully what you are buying and also watch out for if voltage or current control is required from the power supply.

 

[Guy79]

Eric, thank you. Lots of good info there for me to consider. We are not considering colour changing at all, so one less thing to worry about.
When you say to look out for the lumen per watt to ensure good quality LED tape, are you aware of any particular makes that I should consider, or even stay away from?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We are using standard height wall cabinets so there will be about 30cm space between the top of the cabinets and ceiling.

So get tall ones that go right up to the ceiling and do away with that useless gap which will do nothing except collect fluff, dust, grease and dead insects. The latter particularly if you have lights there.

At the same time we are having the walls/ceiling replastered.

I hope they do a very good job - any light hitting the ceiling at a shallow angle will make otherwise imperceptible flaws look like the surface of the Moon.

Ideally we do not want to have any light fixtures on the ceiling

Why on earth not? Nothing else will work as well.