Laying the WBP pre tiliing

[chriselevate]

Hi,

As you can see from this photo:



I've got a couple of pipes that will need to go through the WBP when laying. How is this done? Should I be drilling a hole to accommodate the pipes on the right hand side of the photo or shoule I be notching out a slot so I can slide the board into situ?

Thanks

 

[dextrous]

Either will do. It depends on how accurately you think you can measure it - you could start by trying to drill holes, and if this proves to be a b u g g e r, convert them to slots.

Can't really tell where there will be a join in your boards, but I suspect that the position of the soil pipe and the existing 15mm pipe will determine the size of board, and whether it can be dropped into place or slid in. Although, if it were me, I'd be relocating all copper pipes so they come out of the wall and not the floor, as it will be easier to muck about with the board plus make the tiling a bit easier (no holes to cut, which I suspect may have become a post in its own right on this site in due course, whilst also not providing escape routes for any water that will inevitably splash onto the floor ) This will require careful planning and measurements from the pottery you intend to fit.

 

[dextrous]

Chase the pipework into the walls as you're going to be boarding over the whole lot anyway.

PS - I'd recommend you put some (loft) insulation down between the joists - every little helps!

 

[chriselevate]

Hmmmm that's a good idea.

You mean chase out a notch in the wall and slot the 15mm pipe into it.... any need to render over it or just leave it in the wall? I guess I'd need to notch out a slot in the top of the joist first and lay it in that?

The toilet I'm fitting back there is the one that came out.... it had a flex hose attached to the bottom of the cistern and the into that rigid pipe. How far up the wall will I want it to come? Are you then tlaking about having it come out at a right angle from the wall again?

Just where I'm stood to take the photo I've also got a send a return radiator pipes that I'm going to send along the 2nd gap from the left (gap between the joists) so I can put the heated towel rail on the wall I'm facing. Is it advisable to again chase these into the wall?

Just trying to get my preperation right before I start screwing the boards down!!! lol

Cheers

 

[dextrous]

Personally, I like to have all pipes coming out of the walls (at right angles) if I can, for the reasons described previously.

There's no need to render them into place as you're overboarding the whole lot, and the couple of mm play by leaving them loose may well be a godsend some the time for connecting them up (if you do have to hold them back to the wall with copper pipe clips, it will still allow a bit of lateral movement which render will definitely not without a serious risk of pulling the plasterboard from the wall).

As for heights - it won't matter too much as the job will be far neater this way anyway, but use the pan/cistern, radiator, basin etc to get a reasonable measurement from, so that they pipework will be as non-visible as possible. Sorry I can't be more specific than that. If you're using a wallhung basin, then this should be set so the rim is 800mm from the floor, if that helps.

You will be able to get covers for the exit points from the wall to make them look pretty for the ones that are visible

Can't remember what you're covering the walls with, but if tiling throughout, then if you're being exceptionally accurate, you could position the pipes at a nice height to allow for notching of tiles rather than having to drill holes.

Finally, yes there will be some notching of the WBP, but nowhere near as deep as if you bring the pipes up through the floor firther in the room, and these notches will be largely hidden by the plasterboard anyway.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[chriselevate]

Yeah that helps a lot - thanks dude!

I ment notching of the joist to run the cold feed of the toilet to the wall and then up into it? I'll need to notch the joist out at this point?

Are you refering to using copper solders all the way to the wall, up the wall and then out of the wall?

What would you couple the bottom of the cistern to this feed with? Would you use flexible hosing for this? Is there a way to get this measurement correct?

Yes the basin is wall hung so I'll just get the hot and cold feed to come out of the all nearish the bottom of the sink? Again what would you connect the bottom of the taps to the feeds with?

The heating system pipes feeding the heated towel rail.... would you just have these exit the wall an inch or two above the top of the skirting board?

Oh one last thing.... which comes first.... locating the toilet base or tiling the floor? I'm guessing you tile around the toilet rather than sitting the toilet on a completed tiled floor?

Thanks

 

[dextrous]

Yeah that helps a lot - thanks dude!

I ment notching of the joist to run the cold feed of the toilet to the wall and then up into it? I'll need to notch the joist out at this point?

Yep - a relatively easy way would be to use a spade drill bit to drill a series of holes down to the depth of the spade, then tidy up with a chisel

Are you refering to using copper solders all the way to the wall, up the wall and then out of the wall?

Yes - are you confident of doing this?

What would you couple the bottom of the cistern to this feed with? Would you use flexible hosing for this? Is there a way to get this measurement correct?

From an isolator valve fitted close to the final wall (the regs say you have to anyway) there are several ways, but a short length of copper - possible with a 90 elbow to flick the pipe upwards - compressed one end into the valve, the other compressed into a flexi tap connector (1/2" to cistern, 15mm compression other is the norm)
Aim at getting the pipe below the connection to the valve (assuming it's a bottom feed), anywhere between 3" to 6" as the flexi can be coiled up towards it

Yes the basin is wall hung so I'll just get the hot and cold feed to come out of the all nearish the bottom of the sink? Again what would you connect the bottom of the taps to the feeds with?

Flexi will do it again, but see my final paragraph below

The heating system pipes feeding the heated towel rail.... would you just have these exit the wall an inch or two above the top of the skirting board?

yes, depending on the height of where you want the rail - you don't want to be left with too much of a vertical section to look at. The distance between the pipes (centre to centre) will be exactly the same as the centre to centre measurement of the holes in the radiator, assuming you are using in-line radiator valves. Easiest way is to "dress" the radiator with the valves etc and use it to get an approximate height position, and allow about 50mm from the bottom of the valves to the height of where the pipes will stick out from the wall

Oh one last thing.... which comes first.... locating the toilet base or tiling the floor? I'm guessing you tile around the toilet rather than sitting the toilet on a completed tiled floor?

It's much easier to tile the floor and rest the pan on top of the tiles - cutting neat curves from tiles is quite difficult, plus if you wanted to change the pan at a later date, this would involve redoing the whole of the tiled section of the floor, whereas if you're lucky, the new pan might cover the old screw holes. It will also keep the floow watertight. Come to think of it, if you place the pan and cistern where they will end up with the flexi loosely connected to the cistern, then you will get a good estimate of where to bring the pipe out. You won't be able to be mm perfect, since the flooring itself (WBP, adhesive and tiles) will push things up a bit, but you will be close enough

Just be careful to ensure that your underfloor heating mat ends up well away from anywhere you will be screwing the pan into. Easiest way will be to dry fit the pan in its resting place and mark round the base! In fact, marking the walls for the position of the cistern, sink and radiator will be quite handy too (sharpie felt pens are good for this!) - these will enable you to get the pipes in pretty much the right places.

Personally, I don't use flex pipes since training and experience means that I can use rigid copper pipes accurately, but for yourself they will make life a lot easier. If you're not used to soldering copper, and feel nervous, then integral solder ring fittings (alhough a few pennies dearer) will make life easier too. I am assuming several things within this reply (such as using in-line rad valves and a bottom entry cistern), which I am happy to amend as and when. Final bit of advice it to remember that the ground work and preparation is the most important aspect and will make the final fitting of the suite quick and a relative joy, and a feeling of happiness and one-ness with the world will ensue

In the meantime, I have added you as a friend, and will provide you with contact details if you want to talk through anything rather than post it on here. You can buy me a pint someday

 

[chriselevate]

if it were me, I'd be relocating all copper pipes so they come out of the wall and not the floor, as it will be easier to muck about with the board plus make the tiling a bit easier (no holes to cut, which I suspect may have become a post in its own right on this site in due course, whilst also not providing escape routes for any water that will inevitably splash onto the floor ) This will require careful planning and measurements from the pottery you intend to fit.

How's this....



Success???

 

[dextrous]

Impressive, well done. The only query I have is whether there is a gap between the pipes at the crossover point for the radiator about a foot or so within the door, since if not then they may knock against each other a little? Not a problem - just squeeze a bit of felt or something between them. Personally, I'd insulate the pipes as a point of principle to reduce heat loss and ensure you don't hear water rushing through them, but this isn't essential.

Don't forget that rockwool between the joists - especially if you intend to have underfloor heating!

Worth clipping the pipes into the notches now, and if you can pressure test the joints prior to covering, then so much the better.

You will be mighty grateful to have that isolator on the cistern pipe - especially when you come to plaster and need water available to hand (I was going to say on-tap but this might seem too much of a pun). Get some speedfit caps to put over the ends of the pipes (the removable sort), to assist with pressure testing and prevent excessive muck getting into the pipework.

 

[dextrous]

Final tiny thought - clean your joints with a wet rap - flux left for a long period will weaken it eventually and it's better safe than sorry.

 

[chriselevate]

Impressive, well done. The only query I have is whether there is a gap between the pipes at the crossover point for the radiator about a foot or so within the door, since if not then they may knock against each other a little? Not a problem - just squeeze a bit of felt or something between them. Personally, I'd insulate the pipes as a point of principle to reduce heat loss and ensure you don't hear water rushing through them, but this isn't essential.

Thanks!

Glad you like my plumbing skills! I quite enjoy plumbing.... don't do a too bad job either!? You meanI could buy some of the foam insulation and slot these onto the pipes or just use a little bit where the pipes get close to each other.... where you suggested?

Don't forget that rockwool between the joists - especially if you intend to have underfloor heating!

Think I'm not going to bother with underfloor heating.... too expensive and don't want the electricians bills either! But I've got a spare roll of insulation when it was on bogof at wickes so I'll lay that between the joist in order to lock in any of the warmth and to sound insulated this room from the louge a bit better.

Worth clipping the pipes into the notches now, and if you can pressure test the joints prior to covering, then so much the better.

Clipping the pipes into the notches? How do you mean?

How would I pressure test the joints? I'm pretty good at soldering and I take time rubbing the copper to get a good joint so I'm pretty confident they are sealed well.

You will be mighty grateful to have that isolator on the cistern pipe - especially when you come to plaster and need water available to hand (I was going to say on-tap but this might seem too much of a pun). Get some speedfit caps to put over the ends of the pipes (the removable sort), to assist with pressure testing and prevent excessive muck getting into the pipework.

The speedfit caps you're talking about.... are referring to these... http://www.wickes.co.uk/Speedfit-Stop-End/invt/421644

You say

clean your joints with a wet rap - flux left for a long period will weaken it eventually and it's better safe than sorry.

How do I do this? And what product are you refering to?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Richard C]

For some reason I seem to have completely missed this one.

I’ve been following your project quiet closely & have put a lot of effort into it from the very start but why on earth did you start a new thread? not impressed . Carry on Dex your making a good job of it, I've suddenly lost interest & I’ll leave it to you!

 

[chriselevate]

Arrrgggghhhhh Rich C.... really wasn't ment to offend you nor throw you off the project.... please come back!

I started a new thread as I heard someone say 'Please post individual aspects of the job into their relevant areas on the site' and I was trying to be good and follow these instructions.

I thought because we were on page 3 of the original post it was best I did that.... I was only trying to do the right thing.

Am happy to continue the rest of the job until completion on this thread though if that's what you'd prefer.

Really sorry dude.

 

[dextrous]

You meanI could buy some of the foam insulation and slot these onto the pipes or just use a little bit where the pipes get close to each other.... where you suggested?

I'd do the whole lot of the pipes - it's only a few pounds after all

Think I'm not going to bother with underfloor heating.... too expensive and don't want the electricians bills either! But I've got a spare roll of insulation when it was on bogof at wickes so I'll lay that between the joist in order to lock in any of the warmth and to sound insulated this room from the louge a bit better.

Good!

Clipping the pipes into the notches? How do you mean?

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/19780/Plumbing/Copper-Tube-Accessories/Copper-Pipe-Clips-15mm-Pack-of-10

How would I pressure test the joints? I'm pretty good at soldering and I take time rubbing the copper to get a good joint so I'm pretty confident they are sealed well..

Did you apply flux to the pipe and fittings when you soldered? It is usual to do so, as it has two properties - it cleans the pipe and acts a bit like a lubricant to allow the solder to flow freely and coat all the pipework and fitting. If your joints were spotlessly clean then it should be OK. If you did use flux, then this is acidic and any excess should be wiped off with a wet rag. As for pressure testing - in the ideal world, you'd hire a hydraulic pressure testing kit and pressurise the pipework up to 6bar to check for leaks. If not possible, then the hot and cold water supplies can be tested by capping the ends, and turning on the supply. As for the radiator pipes, if you have a combi (can't remember whether you have), then again cap the pipes and pressurise the system well above the normal level. After a while, you can always drain the system back to something more desirable once you are confident that the joints don't leak. I have a couple of pushfit isolator valves which I tend to use for this, since it enables me to drain water from the end of the new tails which has the other advantage of flushing the pipework out.

The speedfit caps you're talking about.... are referring to these... http://www.wickes.co.uk/Speedfit-Stop-End/invt/421644[/QUOTE] yep

You say

clean your joints with a wet rap - flux left for a long period will weaken it eventually and it's better safe than sorry.

How do I do this? And what product are you refering to?

see above - er typo, I meant rag as in cloth

 

[chriselevate]

Brill!

All sounds good to me....

I'll go out and buy a pack of these tomorrow to insulate the pipes.... you just mean the hot water send and return for the radiator don't you?

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Economy-Pipe-Insulation/invt/210451

And I'll put this down between all the joists before laying the WBP...

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Loft-Roll-Insulation/invt/161210
(this is the stuff I've got left over from the loft so I'll use this)

And I'll get a pack of these....

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Copper-Pipe-Clips/invt/420921

I'm not sure if I've got enough room in the notches to use these but I'll give it a go in order to keep them a still as possible.

I've not got a combi boiler so I'll simply fill the header tank back up (remembering to turn off the radiator I used to drain the sytem first!!) and I'll monitor the joints to check there's no leaks.

There aren't any leaks on my toilet supply so I hope the same will apply to my radiator supplies.

Yes I used fluw on both the fitting and the pipe... so I'll give the outside of the pipes a quick wipe with a cloth to make sure there is no excess left on there.

So it looks like that part of the job is pretty much over?!? Brilliant!

Right.. time to fit my noggings tomorrow and get some boards.

I see that wickes have....
Size: 2440mm x 1220mm x 18mm
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Exterior-WBP-Plywood/invt/110037
and
Size: 1220mm x 607mm x 18mm
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Exterior-WBP-Plywood/invt/111736

Obviously the bigger sheets are better value but it's gonna be hard getting them home from Wickes in the back of my car?!?! (I really should give up teaching, buy a van and start up a business! Not!)

With the dimensions of my room being...

Wall A 3270
Wall H 1200
Wall G 1600
Wall C 750



Should I go for the bigger sheets of ply? I mean I need to buy some sheets of plasterboard so I could get it all delivered from a builders suppliers or I could possibly get someone to give me a hand with a van?! i.e. wait until Monday and try to get them delivered or someone to help.

Oh when it comes to fitting the boards and the noggings I'll check the post from you and Rich as you've given me lots of helpful tips and hints on that thread =)