Lighting circuit v socket ring?

[oldguy]

Hello,

I have a couple of 10w LED outdoor spotlights to install and will control them from a remote through a RF socket - the socket adaptors that plug into the wall socket.

Question is can I / should I break into he lighting ring in the loft and put a wall socket in?

Or should I be running a spur from the socket ring? (more difficult to run the cable to the loft).

I've simply never seen a wall socket in a lighting ring, but because I want to use the RF remote to turn the lights on and off, I have to 'plug' the LED light in....

thanks

 

[Simon35]

Hello,

I have a couple of 10w LED outdoor spotlights to install and will control them from a remote through a RF socket - the socket adaptors that plug into the wall socket.

Question is can I / should I break into he lighting ring in the loft and put a wall socket in?

Or should I be running a spur from the socket ring? (more difficult to run the cable to the loft).

I've simply never seen a wall socket in a lighting ring, but because I want to use the RF remote to turn the lights on and off, I have to 'plug' the LED light in....

thanks

http://www.screwfix.com/p/round-pin-socket-5a-white/92273

Usually used for plugging in lamps and controlling them from wall switches....just like in my house

Just re-read your post...useless for your purposes.

Fit a socket on the lighting circuit and label it.

 

[oldguy]

Mmmm, the RF controlled sockets are :

 

[oldguy]

I understand a standard socket on a lighting ring = someone might plug into it thinking it's on the socket ring.....so does labelling it negate it being an issue with the regs?

 

[slippyr4]

Is your lighting circuit protected by an RCD?

 

[oldguy]

I think so, but would have to check CU when I get home!

 

[JohnW2]

I understand a standard socket on a lighting ring = someone might plug into it thinking it's on the socket ring.....so does labelling it negate it being an issue with the regs?

I don't think that the regs actually forbid it, even without labelling, but there is clearly a possibility that someone will one day do as you say, and mistake it for a 'regular' power socket.

Labelling is certainly the very least you should do. You could also use some tape, cable ties or whatever to 'attach' the adapter to the socket to underline the fact that the adapter should not be removed and something else plugged in.

If you wanted, you could also feed the socket (from the lighting circuit) via a fused connection unit ('FCU'), with a 3A (or even 1A) fuse in it. In that way, the FCU fuse would blow if someone tried to plug in an use a fan heater, or whatever!

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldguy]

thanks, like that....fused spur it is I think, covers an 'issues' if someone else went up there....

 

[winston1]

Lots of poor advice and information here.

Lighting is not on rings.
13 amp sockets should not be fitted to lighting circuits, one day someone will plug a kettle into it.
FCU are not used or necessary on lighting circuits.

So, the correct thing to do is run a spur off the ring final.
Often there are two ways to do something, the easy way which is wrong, or the correct way which is harder.

 

[slippyr4]

13 amp sockets should not be fitted to lighting circuits

Should not? or must not?

one day someone will plug a kettle into it.

In a loft?

 

[oldguy]

Lots of poor advice and information here.

Lighting is not on rings.
13 amp sockets should not be fitted to lighting circuits, one day someone will plug a kettle into it.
FCU are not used or necessary on lighting circuits.

So, the correct thing to do is run a spur off the ring final.
Often there are two ways to do something, the easy way which is wrong, or the correct way which is harder.

I 'like' doing things the correct way....but if its 'safe' then I'm generally ok with an alternative.
However.....if I go with a spur from the ring / or extend the ring.......can you answer the following please:

As the spurred socket is in the loft space do I need to use particular type of socket (IP rated etc?)
From the short flex on the LED lights, I was going to connect BOTH into a standard round junction box then run 1.5mm flex from that with a plug (3A fused) and into the remote control plug.....does the flex have to be a certai type? Does the junction box have to be a certain type?

thanks

 

[slippyr4]

I was going to connect BOTH into a standard round junction box then run 1.5mm flex from that with a plug (3A fused) and into the remote control plug.....does the flex have to be a certai type? Does the junction box have to be a certain type?

thanks

Why not wire both flexes into the same plug? so long as they fit the terminals nicely and are both held adequately by the strain relief, it's ok. They'll likely be 2-core 0.5mm^2, which should fit just fine.

 

[JohnW2]

I 'like' doing things the correct way....but if its 'safe' then I'm generally ok with an alternative.

We all would prefer 'perfect' but I don't personally think that you should worry too much about what winston said - but that is obviously just my ('pragmatic') opinion.

However.....if I go with a spur from the ring / or extend the ring.......can you answer the following please: As the spurred socket is in the loft space do I need to use particular type of socket (IP rated etc?)

Not really.

From the short flex on the LED lights, I was going to connect BOTH into a standard round junction box then run 1.5mm flex from that with a plug (3A fused) and into the remote control plug.....does the flex have to be a certai type? Does the junction box have to be a certain type?

Again, not really. Provided it remains 'accessible' (for inspection etc.), which is probably will be in the roof space, you can use any sort of junction box which 'works'. 1.5mm² cable of almost any type would be more than adequate - but be careful to route it so that it's not likely to be trodden on (or tripped over!)..
Edit: Alternatively, as slippry4 has said, if the cables will fit comfortably (which, as said, they probably will), you could put both into one plug.

Kind Regards, John/QUOTE]

 

[mfarrow]

I assume @winston1 has allowed for a kettle in every socket in their house, just in case.

 

[ericmark]

The TV booster in the loft often has the 13A plug built in and is often run from the lighting circuit, however the fact that there is a TV booster plugged in is quite a good indication that the socket is there simply to allow one to use something with a built in plug.

The regulations state that the installation should be split into circuits to reduce the danger for example loss of light, when a fault happens. As with most of the regulations it does not say you must have two RCD's it just tells you that the risk of danger from loss of power must be considered in the design.

So as the skilled person you must decide if what you are doing is likely to cause an unreasonable danger. With lighting only marked on the sockets one can argue there was not any unreasonable danger. Clearly people can ignore a notice, but they can also make an extension lead with a set of 13A sockets on one end and a BA22d plug on the other, you can't protect from others doing things which they know are wrong.

So I feel as long as you put some thing on the socket, so in 30 years time when you can't remember why you fitted it, you can see something which shows you not to plug in an electric drill, then it's OK. Using a double socket box, and a socket, fuse and switch using a grid system, with a 1A fuse will likely mean the fuse will rupture before the whole lighting circuit fails. I used that system when converting a unfused spur into a fused spur with 6 extra sockets.