Linking lights with smart switches.

[Tony_Kent]

I hope that this is a very simple request; it seems something basic but I’m struggling to find an answer.

I want to link some different lights together using smart switches.

As an example, there’s a light switch inside the front door that turns on only one light next to it. I want to install a smart switch behind it (traditional and old brass toggle that I want to keep) so that when I turn it on it also turns on the stair lights on each of the three floors which currently each have their own switch, one per floor.

How do I achieve this?

I eventually want a more complex scheme, including features such as when I turn off the main bedroom light every light in the house goes off too, but to start with just need to understand how I can have the action of flicking one switch (or opening one door, triggering one motion sensor etc.) fire off other actions.

Thanks

 

[jado84]

Do you have neutrals at the switches? How deep are the boxes behind the switches?

If no neutrals, probably the simplest way to achieve this would be with Philips Hue bulbs and Hue's wall switch module. Essentially you connect the permanent and switched live feeding the bulb together, bypassing the physical switch (so the bulb is always powered). The module is then wired into the existing light switch and detects if the switch is open or closed. You then tell the app to control the bulb based on what the physical switch's state is. Drawback is smart bulbs are more expensive (although Innr, IKEA Tradfri, or generic zigbee bulbs do tend to work with Hue and are much less expensive) and a bit of zombie power usage.

Then you've got a single ecosystem to program everything inside of alongside motion sensors/remotes etc if desired.

 

[Murdochcat]

Assuming you have LED bubs it will be cheaper to leave the odd light on all night than spend all the money necessary to do what you want

OR buy a torch and go to your consumer unit each night and manually turn off the lighting breakers ...........

 

[ericmark]

I have found the Google home app which I use as have Google Nest Mini's combines many diffrent makes of smart devices together.

 

[Tony_Kent]

Do you have neutrals at the switches? How deep are the boxes behind the switches?

If no neutrals, probably the simplest way to achieve this would be with Philips Hue bulbs and Hue's wall switch module. Essentially you connect the permanent and switched live feeding the bulb together, bypassing the physical switch (so the bulb is always powered). The module is then wired into the existing light switch and detects if the switch is open or closed. You then tell the app to control the bulb based on what the physical switch's state is. Drawback is smart bulbs are more expensive (although Innr, IKEA Tradfri, or generic zigbee bulbs do tend to work with Hue and are much less expensive) and a bit of zombie power usage.

Then you've got a single ecosystem to program everything inside of alongside motion sensors/remotes etc if desired.

Thanks for this.

There aren’t any neutrals, and I do have a few of the latest Sonoff switches that don’t need one which I thinking of trying to use.

The issue for me with Hue is the expense and complication. There are about 200 bulbs in the house in about fifteen rooms, which is going to make it a big project in both respects.

I suppose that I could do it in stages, but I was hoping to “take over” each dumb switch if possible.

 

[Tony_Kent]

Assuming you have LED bubs it will be cheaper to leave the odd light on all night than spend all the money necessary to do what you want

OR buy a torch and go to your consumer unit each night and manually turn off the lighting breakers ...........

The second phase was to be to install a motion sensor in my little boys’ room at the top,of the house so that if they wake they can find their way down to our room without being scared. It’s a five story house, and can feel quite spooky in the middle of the night.

 

[foxhole]

The second phase was to be to install a motion sensor in my little boys’ room at the top,of the house so that if they wake they can find their way down to our room without being scared. It’s a five story house, and can feel quite spooky in the middle of the night.

We used to have plug in night lights on landings which have movement sensors , they illuminate for 20 seconds, they are also removable torches and in the event of a power failure will turn on.

 

[jado84]

Thanks for this.

There aren’t any neutrals, and I do have a few of the latest Sonoff switches that don’t need one which I thinking of trying to use.

The issue for me with Hue is the expense and complication. There are about 200 bulbs in the house in about fifteen rooms, which is going to make it a big project in both respects.

I suppose that I could do it in stages, but I was hoping to “take over” each dumb switch if possible.

With 200 bulbs (let alone accessories) you'd be exceeding the max devices per bridge for Hue anyhow.

Have you got one of the sonoffs with relay contacts and switch contacts? I've not used the sonoff app much, but IIRC there are automations in it. You should be able to link the output of the relay to the state of the switch contacts, and create automations to control the Sonoff on the other switches. With Sonoff's behind each light switch, you could have a setup such as:
1. When the downstairs hallway lightswitch turns on, turn on the ground/first/second floor hallway lights 2. When the downstairs hallway lightswitch turns off, turn off the ground/first/second floor hallway lights (repeat for each switch)

Failing that, you should be able to add the Sonoff devices to Alexa and create your automations that way.

That does run the risk of getting very complicated quickly.

At your kind of scale, I wonder if something like Home Assistant or Smartthings may be a better fit - add the devices there and set the automations up in there. If you want motion sensors (almost all of which are ZigBee, with a few that are BLE/Z-wave) you'll likely need to look at this before too long.

Another thing to mention is that adding more WiFi devices on that sort of scale may start impacting on WiFi performance for phones/tablets etc.

Here's a YouTuber who's done something (not dissimilar) but using Shelly instead of Sonoff as the sensor/relay and (IIRC) NodeRed to do the logic.

 

[ericmark]

I can only say what I have found.
I started with Energenie which does not need a neutral, however started about 7 years ago and moved house increasing number of light switches and sockets, to 5 light switches and 3 sockets, now 2 switches and 1 socket still working. I had problems with small bulbs (G9) staying on dim (cured with load capacitor) and shimmer (cured by fitting larger bulbs which do not allow covers to be fitted. And GU10 cured by swapping bulbs with units without smart switches. The sockets replaced with adaptors so can more easy select where used, and switches replaced the Tapo (TP-Link) which use batteries so no shimmer or staying on dim problem, and they also stay as left with power cut, and can even switch PIR controlled lamps. It also has dusk and dawn switching.

As to bulbs, had one fail, but it seems there are so many different functions. One make has option of dimming before switching off, great for outside light as we have a warning before it switches off. Some have dusk and dawn, some colour changing, some can be grouped. But all the functions you don't find until after you buy, so pot luck, some bulbs work direct, some need hubs, at moment running 4 hubs, but changes with TP-Link means no longer need hub for tapo and kasa but since they double as door bells, keeping.

The same hub is used for central heating, I have three electronic TRV heads, eQ-3 are bluetooth and will only work with one phone, but can be manually set and were cheap £15 each in 2019, the energenie can only be adjusted through the app, so must have a hub, and compared with the Kasa used to replace the one damaged by carpet fitted are rather basic, the Kasa can be set for time you want room warm, not when you want it to start warming, and tell you the history of how the room heated up. Non linked to a wall thermostat, I paid around £22 for the Kasa, but see now price has rocketed.

As to price the two gang TP-Link switch is cheaper than single gang. Oh do not need to remove switch to change batteries, and to date very pleased with them.

In the main the smart switches used where really need two way switching, and use voice control to get around lack of two way switches, except for living room where I would dose off and wake in a dark room, so voice control means no danger falling on cats toys. Now it auto turns on at dusk, so don't even need voice control.

I have 8 outside lights, 6 being smart controlled, so easy to turn all on before leaving car with phone app, and off once in house with voice command, and they are not triggered by cats. One is colour changing so set to green at Halloween and changing at Christmas. Think 50p extra to get colour one to simple white.

Down in flat the light switch is not at entrance, so again a smart switch is used as no two way switching. But bedroom is not wifi connected it has a remote, so visitors can use it without setting phone to our wifi, voice OK for living room, but don't want to wake people with voice in bedroom.

 

[Tony_Kent]

With 200 bulbs (let alone accessories) you'd be exceeding the max devices per bridge for Hue anyhow.

Have you got one of the sonoffs with relay contacts and switch contacts? I've not used the sonoff app much, but IIRC there are automations in it. You should be able to link the output of the relay to the state of the switch contacts, and create automations to control the Sonoff on the other switches. With Sonoff's behind each light switch, you could have a setup such as:
1. When the downstairs hallway lightswitch turns on, turn on the ground/first/second floor hallway lights 2. When the downstairs hallway lightswitch turns off, turn off the ground/first/second floor hallway lights (repeat for each switch)

Failing that, you should be able to add the Sonoff devices to Alexa and create your automations that way.

That does run the risk of getting very complicated quickly.

At your kind of scale, I wonder if something like Home Assistant or Smartthings may be a better fit - add the devices there and set the automations up in there. If you want motion sensors (almost all of which are ZigBee, with a few that are BLE/Z-wave) you'll likely need to look at this before too long.

Another thing to mention is that adding more WiFi devices on that sort of scale may start impacting on WiFi performance for phones/tablets etc.

Here's a YouTuber who's done something (not dissimilar) but using Shelly instead of Sonoff as the sensor/relay and (IIRC) NodeRed to do the logic.

Thanks. I’ve a selection of Sonoff switches and relays. I might just wire some into the switch back boxes and then try playing round with them.
Hopefully the WiFi will cope (300mb and wired Ubiquiti access points) but I suppose I’ll see.

 

[Tony_Kent]

I can only say what I have found.
I started with Energenie which does not need a neutral, however started about 7 years ago and moved house increasing number of light switches and sockets, to 5 light switches and 3 sockets, now 2 switches and 1 socket still working. I had problems with small bulbs (G9) staying on dim (cured with load capacitor) and shimmer (cured by fitting larger bulbs which do not allow covers to be fitted. And GU10 cured by swapping bulbs with units without smart switches. The sockets replaced with adaptors so can more easy select where used, and switches replaced the Tapo (TP-Link) which use batteries so no shimmer or staying on dim problem, and they also stay as left with power cut, and can even switch PIR controlled lamps. It also has dusk and dawn switching.

As to bulbs, had one fail, but it seems there are so many different functions. One make has option of dimming before switching off, great for outside light as we have a warning before it switches off. Some have dusk and dawn, some colour changing, some can be grouped. But all the functions you don't find until after you buy, so pot luck, some bulbs work direct, some need hubs, at moment running 4 hubs, but changes with TP-Link means no longer need hub for tapo and kasa but since they double as door bells, keeping.

The same hub is used for central heating, I have three electronic TRV heads, eQ-3 are bluetooth and will only work with one phone, but can be manually set and were cheap £15 each in 2019, the energenie can only be adjusted through the app, so must have a hub, and compared with the Kasa used to replace the one damaged by carpet fitted are rather basic, the Kasa can be set for time you want room warm, not when you want it to start warming, and tell you the history of how the room heated up. Non linked to a wall thermostat, I paid around £22 for the Kasa, but see now price has rocketed.

As to price the two gang TP-Link switch is cheaper than single gang. Oh do not need to remove switch to change batteries, and to date very pleased with them.

In the main the smart switches used where really need two way switching, and use voice control to get around lack of two way switches, except for living room where I would dose off and wake in a dark room, so voice control means no danger falling on cats toys. Now it auto turns on at dusk, so don't even need voice control.

I have 8 outside lights, 6 being smart controlled, so easy to turn all on before leaving car with phone app, and off once in house with voice command, and they are not triggered by cats. One is colour changing so set to green at Halloween and changing at Christmas. Think 50p extra to get colour one to simple white.

Down in flat the light switch is not at entrance, so again a smart switch is used as no two way switching. But bedroom is not wifi connected it has a remote, so visitors can use it without setting phone to our wifi, voice OK for living room, but don't want to wake people with voice in bedroom.

Thanks, that’s very helpful.