Lintel installed upside down?

[Bi6Scot]

Hi All,
I'm getting some renovation work done at my house which include replacing a set of french doors with some bi-folds. This involved making the hole in the wall bigger and installing a new lintel. I'm currently in a bit of a dispute with the builder as I don't think the doors have been installed very well - another story!
However, when I was looking at the installation tonight, I saw something that scared me! On the underside of the lintel, the letters T.O.P. are stamped. Does this mean what I think it means?? Has it really been installed upside down? There is also a slight bow in the lintel and the bow is downwards!
I've attached a couple of photos. Not sure if it's obvious from the pics but it definitely says TOP on the underside of the lintel....I'm a first time poster and I'm sure there's a better way to attach a pic.

Any advice/comments welcome.

Thanks.

//media.diynot.com/220000_219155_78517_42782663_thumb.jpg

//media.diynot.com/220000_219155_78518_61606267_thumb.jpg

 

[stuart45]

It's marked TOP for a reason. The steels rods will be in the wrong place if upside down.

 

[Bi6Scot]

I know - just needed someone else to tell me. Thanks for your reply.
My builder will be getting an angry phone call first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[Bi6Scot]

Builder/joiner arrived to finish the job off. I asked him about the lintel and he said it didn't matter and that it was only marked TOP to indicate which way the bow went to make it easier for them to "get a finish" on it.

Is he fobbing me off? Is the lintel an issue and should I insist he removes it and fits it the correct way?

Thanks.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Yep he's talking rubbish to avoid having to redo the job properly
Prestressed concrete lintels are designed for compressive loads to be applied in one direction. When they're unstressed they'll have a slight hog (rise) on the top surface- when the design load is applied that hog will disappear as the load is distributed through the lintel.

Building Control should have spotted that it's upside down- if they didn't then you are allowed to point it out to the inspector (you did notify BC for structural alterations didn't you)?

 

[Bi6Scot]

Builder told me I didn't need to get a warrant as there was already an opening there and we weren't creating a new one - although we were making the existing opening bigger. Presumably this was duff info aswell?
I now think I'll apply retrospectively and get a Building Inspector to come out and look at it.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Hadn't spotted you were in Scotland, regs are slightly different there. If you were only replacing the doors then they probably wouldn't care (except for Part L and FENSA requirements) but structurals they're always interested in.

You'll be after regularisation (what they call it down here when BC get involved after the job)- if the cladding/plasterboard/whatever has been put on the lintel, inspector will want it off to look at size of lintel and size of bearing. Hard to tell from the pics but it looks as if you've got 150mm bearing so at least that's OK.

And annoyingly even though you were told by someone who should know that a warrant wasn't necessary, it is your liability (not the builders) to ensure that all notifiable works are notified.

 

[Bi6Scot]

Two builders told me the same thing, but yes, I still should've checked. My first experience of having any building work done. Hindsight and all that...

Builder is coming on Monday to fix the lintel.

 

[Bi6Scot]

Just measured the lintel. The height is approx 140mm and the width is 100mm (x2 as it's a cavity wall). Is this ok?

Thanks.

 

[theoldun]

Sorry, but disagree with some of these posts.
There are two types of concrete lintels and various grades
If your lintels are two number 140x100mm deep then they are non composite lintels, and the reinforcement wires are approx 20mm up and 20mm down, so in theory it does not matter which way they go in, how ever, if the lintel is clearly marked TOP, then it is prudent to fix accordingly
It is not until you use a 215mm deep Non Com that the wires change position to the bottom and middle
Regards oldun

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Sorry, but disagree with some of these posts.
There are two types of concrete lintels and various grades
If your lintels are two number 140x100mm deep then they are non composite lintels, and the reinforcement wires are approx 20mm up and 20mm down, so in theory it does not matter which way they go in, how ever, if the lintel is clearly marked TOP, then it is prudent to fix accordingly
It is not until you use a 215mm deep Non Com that the wires change position to the bottom and middle
Regards oldun

Sorry Old Un, but unusually you are wrong on this one. If the lintel is an "economy" lintel, then they are as you describe, and they can be inserted either way up. However, they will not be marked as "TOP" on one face, and will not be pre-cambered.

The "Hi-Spec" ones (Naylor call them Hi-Spec, other manufacturers will call them something else) have more capacity as the reinforcement is concentrated near the bottom of the lintel, even in the ones smaller than 215x100mm. This is the reason they are marked top and should only be inserted with "TOP", unsurprisingly, at the top.

Naylor Lintels Hi Spec

• RonnyRaygun
• 17 Jun 2014
• 1

 

[stuart45]

I know a few builders who put the rough face down to get a better key for any render/plaster, and ignore the position of the steel, which is probably what the OP's builder was thinking about.

 

[willismp]

Why not call the lintel manuf first?

When we buy concrete lintels some 6"x4" take alot more weight than others, the specific lintel made by supreme concrete, that we aways use can be installed either way up.

Some do have to be 'the right way up' but I would check the loading first as you may not have to take it all out again and risk damaging the doors.

Most lintels are way over specificed

 

[theoldun]

Ronny, We do not believe we are wrong on this one, and you should know by now that we cover our backside every way but which.
We did not mention any make of lintel, except for composite and non composite, how ever, on reflection, we do admit we should have said. (they are POSSIBLY non composite) and not that they are non composite. By the way, Naylors economy lintel is not manufactured as we described as it only has one centre wire and is a composite lintel.
Our thoughts revolve round Robeslee universal non composite lintel where the wires are as we described.
You will also note Ronny, that we wrote, how ever, if the lintel is clearly marked TOP, then it is prudent to fix accordingly.
Hope you and family are all well and another young member on the way
Regards oldun

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Ronny, We do not believe we are wrong on this one, and you should know by now that we cover our backside every way but which.
We did not mention any make of lintel, except for composite and non composite, how ever, on reflection, we do admit we should have said. (they are POSSIBLY non composite) and not that they are non composite. By the way, Naylors economy lintel is not manufactured as we described as it only has one centre wire and is a composite lintel.
Our thoughts revolve round Robeslee universal non composite lintel where the wires are as we described.
You will also note Ronny, that we wrote, how ever, if the lintel is clearly marked TOP, then it is prudent to fix accordingly.
Hope you and family are all well and another young member on the way
Regards oldun

Fair enough Old Un. Family are all good, won't be adding to it though, haven't got the time, money, or energy for any more!

How's life in Bedfordshire.