LIVE or 'lve' - any good ?

[thesled]

I've recently got into my new house. Well new to me - old to the world.
It's mostly fitted with the old Wylex wired fuse boxes.
However a new consumer unit has been fitted but never wired in. It's made by a company called 'LIVE' - the logo looks more like 'lve'. It doesn't look too shabby. I've checked out their website and all the stuff is currently available so I guess it's not that old.
What I noticed was that the stuff is incredibly cheap - a circuit breaker for about 3 quid - even an RCBO for less than fifteen quid.
So my question is, is this stuff OK? Safe even? It seems to have all the right certs and tickets. The company seems to be based in Manchester but I'm guessing the stuff must be made in China.
So while wouldn't be the end of the world to start again, I'm no gear snob and would be quite happy to use it if it's safe and suitably compliant, especially as I'm trying to keep the cost to a minimum.
Thankyou !

 

[JohnW2]

What I noticed was that the stuff is incredibly cheap - a circuit breaker for about 3 quid - even an RCBO for less than fifteen quid. So my question is, is this stuff OK? Safe even? It seems to have all the right certs and tickets.

That's not really 'incredibly cheap'. Looking at the TLC website, Contactum and BG (British General) MCBs are both under £2 and their RCBOs a bit over £13 (all excluding VAT) and even for Hager (one of the more up-market brands) MCBs are about £2.50, but RCBOs a bit more expensive at around £23 (again plus VAT).

The company seems to be based in Manchester but I'm guessing the stuff must be made in China.

As you imply, virtually any make will be manufactured in somewhere like China - so that, in itself, means nothing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[thesled]

OK Thanks John.
Fair enough. I admit I'm basing my perceptions of cost on what seemed likely to me (I just paid £5 for a plug adapter from Asda) and also from seeing the Siemens stuff (and some other pricey stuff) on the RS website . . . . £100 for an RCBO ? Ouch.
That said, as the cost is more comparable than I thought I'm assuming the quality is not going to be significantly inferior either so I'm a bit more relaxed about that.
Thanks again

 

[Adam_151]

Interestingly the same Siemens RCBOs are also sold with the Wylex or Crabtree Branding and are much cheaper!, Obviously the logo must require very expensive ink.... I'm not sure how Siemens manage to sell much switch gear at their prices, because while your see Merlin / Schneider specified on a lot of jobs, I've only seen the same happen with Siemens when Siemens themselves were the end client, and no its not provided free issue to the installing contractor, its sourced through the standard channels were every stage puts their own % markup on it........

 

[thesled]

Amazing. Such is the power of marketing. I can understand people 'buying the badge' when it's a car, but not something that sits in a cupboard under the stairs for years on end.
Now if we could just find out my LIVE stuff were the same Siemens ones. . . . . . . but somehow I don't think I'm going to be lucky there.

 

[Luckyphil]

Hi

I’ve been using LVE boards for about 18 months , not had any problems with them , I used to like Contactum or Wylex , but like a lot of others quality of Boards etc has gone down , I like the LVE Boards especially when retro fitting , you can afford to supply a good Board loaded with RCBO’d & still give the Customer a realistic price

Regards

Phil

 

[thesled]

Thanks Phil !
That sounds like a vote of confidence for LIVE.
Definitely warming to the idea of keeping this board.
Much appreciated !

 

[plugwash]

The problem with MCBs (and RCBOs) is that properly testing them is easier said than done. To properly test a MCB requires the ability to put kiloamps through it in a controlled and repeatable manner. Few of us have the ability to do that so we have to rely on secondary evidence as to whether the products we are buying are any good.

In the EU/UK importers are responsible for the products they sell. So the question is are the importer willing and able to do their duty and ensure that the products they are importing are up to standard? and to recall products if evidence later arises that substandard product slipped though? or are they are a small bushiness who are in over their head? or are they just a front for a company in china with no significant assets in reach of western courts and that will disappear if/when the **** hits the fan?

I have to say when I look at live electrical's website, the alarm bells are ringing.

* They have a list of local representatives, but they only have mobile numbers for them.
* They have a list of distributors which includes a bunch of websites I have never heard of and one major wholesaler. When I follow the link to said major wholesaler and look through their catalogue I see no mention of live electrical.
* Their home page shows a bunch of unreadable pictures of certificates, but when I go to the individual product pages there is no information given about what standards they comply to or who has certified them as complying to said standards.

That doesn't necessarily mean the products are bad of course, just that their website isn't filling me with confidence that they are good.

 

[JohnW2]

The problem with MCBs (and RCBOs) is that properly testing them is easier said than done. To properly test a MCB requires the ability to put kiloamps through it in a controlled and repeatable manner. Few of us have the ability to do that so we have to rely on secondary evidence as to whether the products we are buying are any good.

Very true. Indeed, in relation to a particular item, I'm not sure whether it could be considered to be still 'fit for purpose' after it had been tested 'with kiloamps', even if we could do it.

In the EU/UK importers are responsible for the products they sell. So the question is are the importer willing and able to do their duty and ensure that the products they are importing are up to standard? ...

In theory, the PTB should prevent products non-compliant with relevnt standards getting past the UK border - but, of course, they generally don't!

... or are they are a small bushiness who are in over their head? or are they just a front for a company in china .....

LIVE ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION (UK) LIMITED

DIRECTORS
CHEN, Xiaohua Nationality: Chinese Country of residence: China
HAN, Wenzhong Nationality: Chinese Country of residence: England
XU, Youbing Nationality: Chinese Country of residence: China

... with no significant assets in reach of western courts and that will disappear if/when the **** hits the fan?

... Their home page shows a bunch of unreadable pictures of certificates, but when I go to the individual product pages there is no information given about what standards they comply to or who has certified them as complying to said standards.

They do cite compliance with BS EN 61009-1 for their RCBOs, but nothing for MCBs or RCDs. If we could read the certificates that might, of course, tell us more!

...That doesn't necessarily mean the products are bad of course, just that their website isn't filling me with confidence that they are good.

As you say, that is, of course, true. Knowing how these things often work, their devices may well simply be re-branded versions of makes we would be far less concerned about, manufactured in the same factory and to the same standard ... but who knows?!

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

Buying cheap-o-matic consumer units is a one time deal - if in 3 or 5 years time you need another MCB, RCBO or whatever, what are the chances of them actually being available?

If you can't get one, it's time for another new board.

 

[JohnW2]

Buying cheap-o-matic consumer units is a one time deal - if in 3 or 5 years time you need another MCB, RCBO or whatever, what are the chances of them actually being available? If you can't get one, it's time for another new board.

In theory, yes. In practice, many people find an alternative way of addressing such a situation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

Very true. Indeed, in relation to a particular item, I'm not sure whether it could be considered to be still 'fit for purpose' after it had been tested 'with kiloamps', even if we could do it.

Agreed, such a test would presumably be a type test or maybe a sample test, not a test done on every unit.

 

[Adam_151]

Buying cheap-o-matic consumer units is a one time deal - if in 3 or 5 years time you need another MCB, RCBO or whatever, what are the chances of them actually being available?
If you can't get one, it's time for another new board.

There is that aspect, although its not always guarenteed that it'll be better with a different brand, five years ago you could have fitted MK and be in the same boat, or as I did at home havells (part of the sylvania lamps company) although I have got spare devices put away. Or fitted a commercial square D board with QOE breakers roughly 20 years ago, for a laugh ask your wholesaler for a price for a QOVS RCBO (the current line of devices that are intended to fit these older boards), need to fit more than a few and its cheaper to replace the board!

Not trying to diminish the point, just making the point that you could easy spend more on a big brand and have the same situation, less likely, of course, but still possible

 

[JohnW2]

Agreed, such a test would presumably be a type test or maybe a sample test, not a test done on every unit.

Indeed, and that was really my point - that, even if prototypes were tested (which I imagine they would be) and sample products were tested during production (which they certainly should be), one would still be reliant on the consistency of the manufacturing process (something which can also be estimated by sampling) to give some confidence that each product sold, even if not individually tested, was going to be within spec.

This is, of course, a very common situation, since there are countless products (fuses being one of the simplest examples) that can only be tested destructively (or, at least, in a manner which renders the tested item unsuitable for sale). My late father was a Standards Engineer in the aerospace industry and he told me that, with some of the most safety-critical components, an amazingly (to me!) high proportion of the manufacturing output was tested destructively, in an attempt to ensure that the items which were released for use were OK.

Kind Regards, John