Location of New Boiler

[keithrob1962]

We currently have a Glow Worm Hideaway 70 boiler installed in March 1985 and located on an interior wall in the kitchen.

The flue goes up to a chimney on the roof and the boiler is currently sited some six feet from an external wall.

Although it is still in perfect working order it is obviously not that efficient due to its age, and I am researching the options regarding replacement at some future time.

A conversation with our Heating engineer indicated that a new condensing boiler could not be sited where the present boiler is because a drain is now required. The nearest outside wall has the soil pipe from the bathroom running down it so I guess that the new boiler would have to be located there to provide access to a drain. That would mean moving our fridge/freezer and it is unlikely that it could be put where the present boiler is. It would also mean that the condensation from the boiler would be coming out within a couple of feet of our conservatory, which I would find very unsatisfactory.

I have yet to understand why a new boiler cannot be installed in place of the existing one thereby utilising the present flue, with a pipe for drainage being run to the outside wall and into the outside soil pipe.

Would current building regulations allow that or do we have to endure a very expensive and inconvenient upheaval in our kitchen to replace a boiler location that has worked for 50 years.

Keith

 

[Keston]

Is the flue running up the chimney?

 

[Matt 87]

If its just the condense that is causing an issue, you can get condense pumps to take it away or build a soak away.

With regards to the flue you will have to consult the manufacturer's instructions on how far your specified boiler can go.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Your existing Glow Worm draws the air it needs for safe combustion from the room. Whilst this in itself is not an issue, some form of fixed ventilation is required to ensure the boiler has an adequate air supply. The burnt gases from combustion are drawn up the chimney to be removed. The new High efficiency (condensing) boilers work on a small diameter flue system, that draws the air needed from the outside, and use a fan to expel the flue gases. Keston, I believe, make a HE boiler that can be flued (with the correct flue!), up an existing chimney, but Keston dont seem to be in the the league of most reliable boilers...

The Glow Worm is F rated, so wont qualify for the scrappage allowance. I helped fit a fair few as an apprentice, like a lot of boilers of that era they IMO are virually bomb proof and with regular servicing should have a good lifespan. You need to consider a new HE boiler is going to give you an approx 20% (I think) saving on gas consumption. 20% off your gas bill against cost of buying and installing a new boiler, the associated hassle of changing your kitchen to accomodate it, and then possible replacement 10 years afterwards as their lifespan is somewhat shorter than their predecessors.... (Also any repairs it may need during that 10 years, PCB's/ parts are not cheap....)

It is highly unlikely that the building regs will allow fitment of anything other than a HE boiler, unless you are in a listed building. I would personally hang on to the Glow Worm and keep it for as long as possible! IMO there is little to go wrong in them, but an annual service and safety check by a good RGI is always a wise investment.

 

[tamz]

I have yet to understand why a new boiler cannot be installed in place of the existing one thereby utilising the present flue,

Because your old boiler is an open flue and new condensing boilers are fan flued. Halstead do a chimney lining system but i've never (nor never will) used Halstead so can't comment on them. I think Broag do one too.

with a pipe for drainage being run to the outside wall and into the outside soil pipe

Use a condensate pump and it can go just about anywhere.

You don't need to be on an outside wall, just have a route to one for the flue.

 

[Keston]

Your existing Glow Worm draws the air it needs for safe combustion from the room. Whilst this in itself is not an issue, some form of fixed ventilation is required to ensure the boiler has an adequate air supply. The burnt gases from combustion are drawn up the chimney to be removed. The new High efficiency (condensing) boilers work on a small diameter flue system, that draws the air needed from the outside, and use a fan to expel the flue gases. Keston, I believe, make a HE boiler that can be flued (with the correct flue!), up an existing chimney, but Keston dont seem to be in the the league of most reliable boilers...

The Glow Worm is F rated, so wont qualify for the scrappage allowance. I helped fit a fair few as an apprentice, like a lot of boilers of that era they IMO are virually bomb proof and with regular servicing should have a good lifespan. You need to consider a new HE boiler is going to give you an approx 20% (I think) saving on gas consumption. 20% off your gas bill
against cost of buying and installing a new boiler, the associated hassle of changing your kitchen to accomodate it, and then possible replacement 10 years afterwards as their lifespan is somewhat shorter than their predecessors.... (Also any repairs it may need during that 10 years, PCB's/ parts are not cheap....)

It is highly unlikely that the building regs will allow fitment of anything other than a HE boiler, unless you are in a listed building. I would personally hang on to the Glow Worm and keep it for as long as possible! IMO there is little to go wrong in them, but an annual service and safety check by a good RGI is always a wise investment.

The flue on the keston can be taken up the chimney, however access panels will have 2 be made for every joint (3 meter lengths so your looking around 3 panels max) however as the post above states they ain't as reliable as others, unless your after a 37kw boiler (kestons new 1) then I would look at a different option. I personally would stick with what you currently have!

 

[Matt 87]

Agree with the above two posts, maybe look at upgrading your controls depending on what you have currently, Honeywell CM907, ST9400 and TRV's would be a good starting block if you have nothing on the system currently, is it fully pumped at the moment?

 

[keithrob1962]

Thanks for all the replies.

Firstly a correction to my original post. The boiler was installed in March 1995 not 1985.

Keston. Yes the flue runs up the chimney.

Hugh Jaleak. Thanks for your very helpful information, particularly cost of replacement against potential savings. That aspect has already come into our thinking as we are 70 years old! Your comments regarding retaining the Glow worm for as long as practical echo those of our heating engineer when we discussed changing to a new boiler at the last annual service.

AgaLout09. Current control is a HoneywellST6400A programmer situated in the airing cupboard, plus a thermostat situated in our hall. We also have individual thermostats on all radiators. Yes – the system is fully pumped.

Once again my thanks to everyone who has offered advice and I think I now have a better understanding of our options – or lack of – and we will stay with the Glow worm as long as we can.

Keith

 

[squattermadras]

I think that these condensing boilers are too clever for their own good, just do a search anywhere on this forum or on the www and try to come to some judgement as to which is the most reliable. You will just end up going around in circles and eventually flip a coin and cross your fingers.

Generally they seem to be a weak, ill thought out and under-engineered design, I would be very tempted to stick with what youve got until these condensing boiler manufactureres get their act together.

What do you think the average useful working life is of your average condensing boiler, you'll prbably have to buy 2 or 3 to meet the lifespan of your existing boiler......does that make them economical? I don't think so. You need to consider the big picture.

Yes, I'm one of those confused souls!

Good luck