Loop through roses or switches?
- Thread starter cjard
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It depends on the lights you are planning. If they are pendant lights then loop in at the pendant.
If they are going to be downlights/wall lights etc then loop in at the switch then you do not need junction boxes hidden up in the ceiling void. Do fit deeper boxes if you loop at the switch otherwise it is a bar steward to fit if you have dimmers/fancy switches.
If they are going to be downlights/wall lights etc then loop in at the switch then you do not need junction boxes hidden up in the ceiling void. Do fit deeper boxes if you loop at the switch otherwise it is a bar steward to fit if you have dimmers/fancy switches.
In my 15 year old house the ground floor is looped at switch, (because of the style of lights used)
and upstairs has roses.
So what suits.
and upstairs has roses.
So what suits.
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The question is already answered, looping at the ceiling rose allows use of emergency lights and ceiling fans with easy, and reduces the loop impedance. But where to do so requires a junction box like this
as no ceiling rose then often better to loop in the switch.
At 6A with 1.5mm² twin and earth you can use around 44.8 meters of cable per circuit and keep within the volt drop. Seems a lot but when you come to wire using 1/3 rule when drilling beams if you use the switches as the JB you can easy exceed that 44.8 meters.
In real terms one could consider with a 6A MCB the average current is 3A in which case 91 meters permitted. You as the designer have to decide what the design current is and so design the circuit. Using the 44.8 meters your safe, using 91 meters you may need to explain why you used that figure if any lights fail to strike.
I have seen 10A MCB's used for lights, that could drop the amount of cable to 26 meters if you take 10A as the design current. If for example the last room is the kitchen which is lit by those silly spot lamps then you could be looking at 26 meters as design current is 10A. It may sound a lot, but when you come to wire, you will find you use more cable than expected.
At 6A with 1.5mm² twin and earth you can use around 44.8 meters of cable per circuit and keep within the volt drop. Seems a lot but when you come to wire using 1/3 rule when drilling beams if you use the switches as the JB you can easy exceed that 44.8 meters.
In real terms one could consider with a 6A MCB the average current is 3A in which case 91 meters permitted. You as the designer have to decide what the design current is and so design the circuit. Using the 44.8 meters your safe, using 91 meters you may need to explain why you used that figure if any lights fail to strike.
I have seen 10A MCB's used for lights, that could drop the amount of cable to 26 meters if you take 10A as the design current. If for example the last room is the kitchen which is lit by those silly spot lamps then you could be looking at 26 meters as design current is 10A. It may sound a lot, but when you come to wire, you will find you use more cable than expected.
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You could have the best of both worlds: the loop at the switch (easy to access, one cable to connect to the fitting) and have a permanent line at the light fitting position (if you ever need to take a feed from one to a new fitting) by running three core & E between the switch and the fitting.
Boy do I wish I'd asked this question 6 months ago before the sparky set to and did ceiling loops.. It's proving a bit awkward now working out the fancy dimmer arrangements.. I've got 3c+e between switch and rose, and most rooms have wall and ceiling lights so 2 circuits..
At least the dimmers are volt free switch modules the size of a matchbox, so I can use all 4 cores in the 3c+e to close the two terminals on each dimmer/leave the 240v in the ceiling, but they won't fit in a wagobox, not with all the rest of the junk.. Someone (333rocky333? (sp?)) mentioned fireproof zip tie bags that are approved for stuffing all the cables, connectors etc into, which may help.. But darn sure everything would fit in a 47mm back box, wish I'd twigged to that one before I let him put everything behind the first spot! That said, the dimmers apparently can be wired for 2 core operation, essentially getting their neutral through the bulb so perhaps 3c+e could have him bring a perm live from the ceiling, give 2 switched lives via 2 dimmers for 2 light circuits and end up with the dimmers in the switch and a wagobox in the ceiling. Just not sure if 2 wire op applies only to halogen bulbs..
And of course fitting the down lighters sees the spring clips absolutely trashing the plasterboard if any adjustment is needed so I need a solution for that as I don't fancy having to repair the ceiling every time an accessible box need to be accessed.. Sparky says he has the easy job, just wiring down lights and leaving them hanging.. I'm the one who's already got several patches of plaster to re-do
At least the dimmers are volt free switch modules the size of a matchbox, so I can use all 4 cores in the 3c+e to close the two terminals on each dimmer/leave the 240v in the ceiling, but they won't fit in a wagobox, not with all the rest of the junk.. Someone (333rocky333? (sp?)) mentioned fireproof zip tie bags that are approved for stuffing all the cables, connectors etc into, which may help.. But darn sure everything would fit in a 47mm back box, wish I'd twigged to that one before I let him put everything behind the first spot! That said, the dimmers apparently can be wired for 2 core operation, essentially getting their neutral through the bulb so perhaps 3c+e could have him bring a perm live from the ceiling, give 2 switched lives via 2 dimmers for 2 light circuits and end up with the dimmers in the switch and a wagobox in the ceiling. Just not sure if 2 wire op applies only to halogen bulbs..
And of course fitting the down lighters sees the spring clips absolutely trashing the plasterboard if any adjustment is needed so I need a solution for that as I don't fancy having to repair the ceiling every time an accessible box need to be accessed.. Sparky says he has the easy job, just wiring down lights and leaving them hanging.. I'm the one who's already got several patches of plaster to re-do
If I was looping at the ceiling/rose I would definitely run 3 core + earth to the switch to provide a neutral as a lot of smart/timer switches require them.
Not having a neutral at the light switch is a big fail IMO.
Not having a neutral at the light switch is a big fail IMO.
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