Mortice lock help

[kivelll]

Hi,

I have recently moved to a new property, and as such would like to replace the locks.
I am no locksmith, so was hoping to just replace like for like.

I have removed the front door lock, and it is a Legge sashlock style (3 lever).
I thought that this would make it easy to replace but the faceplate is only 140mm high. When I have been to the local lock shops, they all seem to be 152 or 165 high.
The back of the lock is 64mm.

Does anybody know where I could get a lock with the same dimensions, or is this style so old that I need to start chipping away at the door?

Thanks in advance

 

[JohnD]

A new BS lock is more solidly built and is going to be bigger (unless perhaps you buy a Bramah or something with a strangely small case at enormous cost)

You may as well get yourself a couple of chisels and hone them until they are so sharp they will cut paper, and enlarge the mortice and the faceplate recess. (new chisels when bought are fairly sharp, but not as sharp as you need for a neat and easy job)

If you are not good at woodwork look for a local joiner or locksmith who will do it in a trice.

see also //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10906

 

[HandyHands]

Whatever you do, check with your insurance company to see what they need installing on the doors. As a minimum, final exit doors should have a 5 lever BS3621:2004 rated lock on them - not a 3 lever.

As JohnD has stated above, you'll need to enlarge the mortice width to accept the wider lock, and probably lengthen the mortice and face flate recess.

Don't forget to fit the new frame keep, as without it the BS rating is invalidated. This again will involve chopping out the frame to accept the box keep.

Good luck.

 

[kivelll]

Thanks for the info guys.

I really don't trust my woodworking skills on something as important as a lock, so have called a locksmith who is coming out tomorrow.

I will know for next time.

 

[JohnD]

have him prepare all the external doors, even if you haven't bought new locks for them all yet.

I would expect that to save additional cost of having him come out a second time

Fit ratchet bolts (mortice bolts) on all doors except the final exit (you can do that yourself if you like, it is much easier than morticing for a lock)

 

[HandyHands]

Ensure you get a fixed price for the work, and don't pay by the hour. Post the details of the quote here first if you're not sure. What area are you from?

 

[Richard C]

I really don't trust my woodworking skills on something as important as a lock, so have called a locksmith who is coming out tomorrow.

Brave man

 

[kivelll]

I ended up having the locks replaced for a fixed price.

Both the front and back were replaced with 5 lever BS locks, and it took the guy just over an hour for the 2. He did a pretty neat job and only charged £95+vat including the locks.

I'm sure I could have got it cheaper, but the company were recommended.

 

[JohnD]

Good move.

Have you put mortice bolts on the back door yet?

 

[Richard C]

I ended up having the locks replaced for a fixed price.

Both the front and back were replaced with 5 lever BS locks, and it took the guy just over an hour for the 2. He did a pretty neat job and only charged £95+vat including the locks.

I'm sure I could have got it cheaper, but the company were recommended.

That's not too bad; still £60 an hour isn't at all bad either

 

[HandyHands]

Its a good price, and I doubt you would have found anyone cheaper that left a decent job behind them. What makes are the locks, are both kite marked on the faceplates, and did he also fit new keeps into the frame?

If you look in Wickes, ERA BS locks are about £22 each (£44 for both). Add an hour of the customers time to fetch these, and possibly more after they have agonised over whether its a 2.5" or 3" they need, shall I go for PB or SS finish, is it really a sashlock, or is it a deadlock - ok, make that 2 hours to include a return visit to Wickes after taking the lock out for measuring etc. Then half a day (at least) of the customers time to fit the locks, fill in the mistakes with woodfiller, sanding, re-painting etc.

It's not a bad price is it !!

 

[kivelll]

Its a good price, and I doubt you would have found anyone cheaper that left a decent job behind them. What makes are the locks, are both kite marked on the faceplates, and did he also fit new keeps into the frame?

If you look in Wickes, ERA BS locks are about £22 each (£44 for both). Add an hour of the customers time to fetch these, and possibly more after they have agonised over whether its a 2.5" or 3" they need, shall I go for PB or SS finish, is it really a sashlock, or is it a deadlock - ok, make that 2 hours to include a return visit to Wickes after taking the lock out for measuring etc. Then half a day (at least) of the customers time to fit the locks, fill in the mistakes with woodfiller, sanding, re-painting etc.

It's not a bad price is it !!

That's what I thought.
I knew that they were 2.5" brass sashlocks I needed, I was just hoping to match the height of the facepplate at 140mm. The nearest I could buy myself was 152mm which I would have struggeled to fit.

They are Union locks, and new keeps were fitted.

 

[HandyHands]

If these were Union 2234E locks, then it is a good price. If you look on the faceplate it should have a kitemark and BS3621:2004 stamped on it. If its BS3621:1998, then they are older BS locks (2234), but most insurers still recognise these. If it says "Security" then they are likely to be non BS rated locks (2201), and shouldn't have been installed.