Need help and advice on porch tile floor - cold

[Peco141]

I have a porch which is enclosed with single glazing and a small but useless radiator.

The floor was originally wood panelling but the condensation was so bad the wooden floor got damp and began to rot despite my attempts to keep it dry.

I cannot afford to put in double glazing to sort the problem and Stormguard Double glazing film didn't work due to the angle of the sills.

I therefore choose to buy a dehumidifier for the condensation and put tiles on the floor to stop the problem with wooden flooring rotting.

Because this porch protrudes from the main house, (like a very small conservatory), there is no real heat getting to it other than the small but futile radiator. Therefore in the winter the new tile flooring seem to store the cold which in turn increases the condensation.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas they can give me to warm the room up or increase the heat on the tiles bearing in mind money is short?

 

[Richard C]

Don’t know when your porch was constructed but under current Building Regs it ceases to be a porch with a radiator fitted & must comply with regulations regarding insulation standards. Do you have an external grade door between the porch & the rest of the house? This is also now a B. Regs requirement.

Cold in itself does not cause condensation; condensation is caused by warmer moist air condensing on cold surfaces such as un-insulated single skin walls & single glazed glass units; fitting curtains to the windows might help. If you factor in the possibility of no damp course in the floor & inadequate ventilation, having a small radiator in a damp environment is probably making matters worse rather than better & if you’ve no external grade door fitted between it & the main property then it just adds to the problem. You would be better off isolating the porch from the rest of the property with an external grade door if it doesn’t currently have one. It will be cold in the porch but as long as the air temperature is around the same, you won’t get condensation, however, the only real cure for is gong to be a modern, well insulated & damp free porch.

 

[Peco141]

I'm not even sure you would call it a porch to be honest. The whole thing however is external protruding from the house.

Here's a picture from the inside to give you an idea. Please excuse the mess in all these photo's:



Here's the floor tiles that are holding the cold



Here's the door which I'm sure you'll agree is completely useless in terms of keep the cold out and a warmth in.



Is there any other way to heat the tiles or at least reduce the cold in the tiles by doing something to the windows and perhaps putting a specific type of rug or carpeting on top of the tiles or am I clutching at straws?

 

[Richard C]

To be honest it looks a whole lot better than I was expecting. As I said, a cold floor might not be entirely desirable but it’s not that that’s causing you problem; you basically have 3 problems;
• The single glazing is your biggest problem, is it North facing; I didn’t appreciate the porch is glazed full height but you could try some cheap secondary glazing on the top half & for some insulation panels on the bottom. You look to have some blinds in there does closing them at night not help?
• The radiator I would turn off completely as I don’t think it’s helping your condensation problem at all. You could have put an electric under tile heater mat down before tiling but it’s not something you could DIY, would cost a small fortune to run with no insulation &, as I sad, its against current regulations to heat a porch anyway. Increasing the heat in there to a sufficient level to keep the inside of the glass at a temperature where moisture won’t condense would result in high energy bill as the heat loss through single glazing it tremendous, it’s why it’s no longer permitted.
• That door doesn’t look double glazed & doesn’t look externally rated to today’s insulation standards. Fitting a new composite door could make a big difference, not least to your heating bill. It will considerable reduce heat loss from the property into the porch & good sealing will stop warm, moist air leaking into the porch & condensing on the cold windows.

Apart from trying the above, the only real answer is to replace it with a modern well insulated porch; well insulated floor with damp membrane, insulated dwarf walls, insulated roof & ½ double glazing to current standards.

Forgot to add you should try opening a window in there, it wonlt make it any warmer but good ventillation will reduce condensation.

 

[Peco141]

I do have two small vents on the wooden frame between two of the windows but obviously not sufficient enough to ventilate and reduce the condensation properly. Unfortunately there are no windows to open, purely a back door. on the right of those pictures.

Some brilliant advice there though. I think I will look into replacing the internal door with something more insulating or "externally rated" as you call it.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

[foxhole]

Why do you live in the porch, if you don't why heat it?

 

[TicklyT]

Something as simple as draught proofing around the existing internal door to keep the relatively moist warm air inside the house, and a heavy curtain on the internal door, kept closed as much as possible to help conserve heat inside the house may solve the condensation problem.

Heating such a poorly insulated space is futile - you might as well put a radiator outside in the street - best aim to just keep it dry and well ventilated - at least it won't feel so cold then.

 

[Peco141]

Why do you live in the porch, if you don't why heat it?

I suppose you have a point. The main aim is to stop the condensation which I assume is a result of cold from the single glazing and the freezing cold tiled floor out on the porch and the warmer air from house. The problem would be the internal door. The post below seems to be my answer.

Something as simple as draught proofing around the existing internal door to keep the relatively moist warm air inside the house, and a heavy curtain on the internal door, kept closed as much as possible to help conserve heat inside the house may solve the condensation problem.

Heating such a poorly insulated space is futile - you might as well put a radiator outside in the street - best aim to just keep it dry and well ventilated - at least it won't feel so cold then.

I shall try and draught proofing and a heavy curtain. To keep the cold out and the warmth in. Hopefully this should go some way to reducing if not stopping the condensation problem.

Thanks to all who posted.

 

[Nige F]

Change the door - as suggested - then let the porch be as cold as the outside air and ventilated. Result , no conden. in it simple really

 

[sorethumb]

Change the door - as suggested - then let the porch be as cold as the outside air and ventilated. Result , no conden. in it simple really

Mmm Great solution not Shame I want to use this space for storage of ackets and boots ect dogs leads, so they are not in the hall dripping on carpet etc. I think when winter comes you solution would allow the water on jackets / floor etc just to freeze up. Anyway I particually don;t want a "External Door" between the porch and the house. That to me would be defeatest becasue if I make the joining door an External door then the porch becomes "outside" so whats the point of the "porch"

 

[foxhole]

The porch is to provide a second barrier to wind and heat loss, that's all it's for.
So you want to use it for another purpose? either knock it down or spend lots of money incorporating it in to the hall of the house.

 

[Richard C]

Why have you transferred your post to the thread I linked as a reference, you’ll cause all sorts of confusion.

Mmm Great solution not Shame I want to use this space for storage of ackets and boots ect dogs leads, so they are not in the hall dripping on carpet etc. I think when winter comes you solution would allow the water on jackets / floor etc just to freeze up.

A properly built & insulated porch will be cold but won’t freeze up & certainly won’t be damp; if you want to store/dry damp clothing in there you will certainly need ventilation in there; your failing to grasp what causes condensation in the first place.

Anyway I particually don;t want a "External Door" between the porch and the house. That to me would be defeatest becasue if I make the joining door an External door then the porch becomes "outside" so whats the point of the "porch"

A porch is not supposed to be inside, that’s the whole point; are you aware current Building Regulations require an external insulation grade door between the main property & the porch or it is no longer a porch but an extension which means the whole lot must comply with Building Regs. Likewise, any heating in there must be capable of being independently controlled & isolated to comply with BR’s.

As foxhole states, a porch is to provide a second barrier to wind and heat loss, that's all it's for.

 

[Peco141]

Hope it's not against the rules to revive my old thread.

It seems it's been hijacked in my absence.

Anyway I took the advice that I could afford and switched off the radiator out in the porch and fitted the inside door with a heavy curtain for the winter to keep the heat in and the cold out. It worked a charm in reducing the condensation and keeping the energy bills down.

However in the next few months I plan to sell the house and would like to get an internal "external grade door" fitted and the radiator removed to get it up to building reg standards. I am having some problems searching for such a door on the internet as any door leads to proper external doors.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

 

[Peco141]

Think this one will do the job..

http://www.savoydoors.co.uk/Exterio...lass/Pine-2XG-Clear-Glazed-Door/prod_690.html