Net closing in on tax-dodgers

I will just keep repeating myself, the business the person who receives the money is the one who has the duty of care to ensure they are conducting business legitimately.

Only the seller can reduce cost to not pay VAT so only the seller will ever be in the wrong.
 
Sponsored Links
O.K so if your neighbours come around your house and asks you to bump some one off is he committing an offence ?????????????

If a potential customer says to me " If I pay cash can we knock some of the vat off the job" is he committing an offence , probably not but they should be
 
Iamchamps said:
I will just keep repeating myself, the business the person who receives the money is the one who has the duty of care to ensure they are conducting business legitimately.

Only the seller can reduce cost to not pay VAT so only the seller will ever be in the wrong.
Click to expand...


I am aware of that but it should not be the case is the point I am making
 
How you ever going to prove a a buyer asked to pay in cash to avoid tax? The police will laugh at you.

That is why the duty would always be down to the business to conduct it legitimately.
 
Sponsored Links
Also, if the trader doesn't declare that amount, he will be fiddling the inland revenue as well.

Should the customer be done for that, too?
 
Iamchamps said:
How you ever going to prove a a buyer asked to pay in cash to avoid tax? The police will laugh at you.

That is why the duty would always be down to the business to conduct it legitimately.
Click to expand...

I am well aware of that & why would|I go to the police ?

Hang on I might have a covert tape recording of a customer asking to pay cash so as to avoid VAT ? set an example and prosecute em ? it will generate its own publicity ;) after a few consumers are banged up ,

they can share the same cell with the tradesmen
 
Recording someone without their consent and then trying to prosecute them :LOL:

You watch the counter lawsuit against you come from that. Why do you think every single time you ring a company or something it says "calls may be recorded" if you could just record people for fun and use it as evidence then they would not bother putting that message.

Anyway my point has been made over and over the person or business taking the money is the only one in the wrong. A buyer can ask to pay however they want for whatever reason they want. Only the business is doing something wrong if they decide to accept cash and not pay tax.
 
transam said:
clampdown on any consumer offering to pay cash to avoid paying VAT.
Click to expand...

Cash payments make it easier for traders to avoid VAT or income tax, but the method of payment is immaterial, as long as payment is made. For the government to ban cash payments, they would have to outlaw cash, and we're not quit ready for that yet.

There's a lot of traders that will give you a price, knowing that you will ask to pay cash, and then give the impression that the VAT will not be charged if pay by cash.

As to recording conversations, it's a legal requirement in some American states to warn someone they are being recorded, but it's not in the UK; companies that advise you that you might be recorded are trying to A) cover their rear ends, and B) trying to warn you to tell the truth, but most that say they may record for training and quality purposes, don't actually have the recording capacity. But insurance companies etc do record conversations to help combat fraud.
 
I know it's quite a grey area but I am sure any covert recording made by an individual without someone's consent cannot be used as evidence in a court case. If it does then it will be easily dismissed and even challenged as invasion of privacy. Considering the costs that come with a court case as a trades person would you really risk trying to take someone to court with a recording of someone saying "can I pay you in cash to save some money" which will more than likely cost you thousands in legal fees...

If that got to the press your business would probably also be finished.

Headline - "John Does Plumbing records customers"
a local plumbing firm has started recording customers to try and take them to court when they ask to pay in cash.
 
Now on a more considered note, it's only the customer that would record the conversation, not the trader, and that would only be to make sure they don't renage on an agreement. Why would any trader ever want to record an offer for cash.
 
Doggit said:
Now on a more considered note, it's only the customer that would record the conversation, not the trader, and that would only be to make sure they don't renage on an agreement. Why would any trader ever want to record an offer for cash.
Click to expand...

I have no idea doggit, transam suggested he may covertly record a customer asking to pay in cash.
 
Exactly, it's amazing how threads shift, and we forget the initial significance. Although Transam initially suggested it, no one queried why they would ever bother to. It's already illegal for a trader to avoid paying VAT if registered, but could the government ever make it ilegal to pay someone in cash, and if they did, would any trader in their right mind ever report someone for offering to avoid paying the VAT, or is there actually a law against that already.

But does Transam have a valid point, should it be illegal for the customer to effectively encourage the avoidance of VAT and income tax. We know the black economy is worth Billions, but it's also the greasr that allows the economy to slide along a bit better. It would be far better if the HMRC tackled the likes of Starbucks, but it's easier to get a list from the council, and then chase those not registered, because starbucks pays VAT, and employs people, so they turn a blind eye to the nice tax deals made.
 
I made covert recordings of my ex wifes verbal abuse as evidence for my divorce. When I tried to show it to my solicitor she promptly told me to destroy them or I could be sued by ex for invasion of privacy if I tried to use them in court. This is the ruling.


5. Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me?

No - provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording.

As I was intending to use it in evidence then a third party, (i.e. the judge), would be involved.
 
Doggit said:
................
But does Transam have a valid point, should it be illegal for the customer to effectively encourage the avoidance of VAT and income tax. We know the black economy is worth Billions, but it's also the greasr that allows the economy to slide along a bit better. It would be far better if the HMRC tackled the likes of Starbucks, but it's easier to get a list from the council, and then chase those not registered, because starbucks pays VAT, and employs people, so they turn a blind eye to the nice tax deals made.
Click to expand...

My wife runs her own business and has just explained it is not against the law for a customer to make the suggestion of cash payment. It is also not against the law for the trader to accept a lower cash payment. However, it is against the law for the trader not to pay the VAT on the cash he receives. E.G. If he charges £120 and customer pays £120, by whatever method the trader pays the relevant vat on that amount.
If the customer pays £100 by cash then the trader still has to pay the vat but only on the £100.
This way the customer gets a discount and the trader pays the vat but on a smaller amount, therefore no crime has been committed. It's only when the trader doesn't pay the vat a crime has been carried out.
 
Doggit said:
but could the government ever make it ilegal to pay someone in cash,
Click to expand...
Well, they could but as my link stated, it is legal tender, which no one can refuse, wheras other methods are not and may be declined.

so they turn a blind eye to the nice tax deals made.
Click to expand...
When will people realise and accept that it is not turning a blind eye; the rules are purposely made so that the wealthy can avoid paying tax?

Any protestations to the contrary are merely a sop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Sponsored Links
Back
Top