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The one I saw at the time was 5000. He's our government expert. Why don't you find what you think he really said?
Maybe there were reasons for the different numbers, but they were all high.

All you ever want to do is sit back and sneer at what you don't understand. How about saying something useful?
 
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South african data are here:
https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z...ts/daily-hospital-surveillance-datcov-report/

Bear in mind that the centre was/is Gauteng. If you click and unclick the box for Gauteng you can see how the numbers took 1-2 weeks for it to spread to the rest of the country to peak - and fall back.
Gauteng is 12Million population, country is ~60M iirc.
Hospital admissions Gauteng: [Edit, it's per week, so 471/day peak]
upload_2021-12-30_23-55-39.png

Timewise London's at about their week 48-49. Rest of country a tad behind, maybe solid week 48.
 
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The one I saw at the time was 5000. He's our government expert. Why don't you find what you think he really said?

All you ever want to do is sit back and sneer. How about saying something useful?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sensus-statement-on-covid-19-15-december-2021

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.15.21267858v1.full-text

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267615v1

He doesn't say what will happen, because that's not his job. He shows what might happen depending on different assumptions and different responses.

Which is what he and his team have been doing from day one. Which is why you should have known that your comment was rubbish as you typed it.
 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sensus-statement-on-covid-19-15-december-2021

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.15.21267858v1.full-text

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267615v1

He doesn't say what will happen, because that's not his job. He shows what might happen depending on different assumptions and different responses.

Which is what he and his team have been doing from day one. Which is why you should have known that your comment was rubbish as you typed it.



So the country should have known it was rubbish. But that's what was presented to the public.
I said what he was quoted as saying. Your assessment is rubbish!
Perhaps you can find where someone was saying it would be nothing like that?

I didn't notice you...
 
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Why does anybody treat Neil Ferguson as an expert?
If we are to believe information on the Internet his previous predictions turned out to be very wrong...

Bird flu: Ferguson predicted 200 million deaths; the eventual number was 282
Swine flu: Ferguson predicted 65,000 deaths; the eventual number was 457

...to name but two.

"Modelling" sounds very clever and earnest but it is clearly not the truth.

Six questions that Neil Ferguson should be asked | The Spectator
 
Why does anybody treat Neil Ferguson as an expert?
If we are to believe information on the Internet his previous predictions turned out to be very wrong...

Bird flu: Ferguson predicted 200 million deaths; the eventual number was 282
Swine flu: Ferguson predicted 65,000 deaths; the eventual number was 457

...to name but two.

"Modelling" sounds very clever and earnest but it is clearly not the truth.

Six questions that Neil Ferguson should be asked | The Spectator

Looks like fair comment.
Digging a bit more:
Ferguson et al should be more careful with what they say.
In the document which does have figures:
" There currently remains no strong evidence that Omicron infections are either more or less severe than Delta infections."
Bull.
Why not look at the best evidence there was - South Africa? Percentages going into hospital (low), length of stay...(short), deaths (none)?

This was published Dec 23rd but it refers to stuff we knew well before the gov statement. https://theconversation.com/south-a...t-tells-us-about-how-deadly-omicron-is-174178
It's balanced, it includes:
"However, most patients had, at worst, mild symptoms, .... These observations substantially differ from the previous waves, including those attributed to the delta variant."
"most hospitalised patients were unvaccinated."
"South Africa’s omicron wave experiences may follow very similar patterns in other countries."
Cases in SA rose by 2x in 10 days from December 1 2021 to December 21 2021 (calculated from their figs, 1.07x per day)
"In the UK, from December 1 2021 to December 21 2021, cases of COVID per million population have risen from 634 to 1,280 (a 101% rise)," (that's not doubling in 2-3 days, that's 2x in 20 days ! It should have doubled several times by the time of the gov report).

(Now we're clear of delta affecting the numbers, omicron cases rates have doubled in the last 13 days (to Dec 28, https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases) 839 to 1670 )

"Modelling" sounds very clever and earnest but it is clearly not the truth."
Modelling is fine as long as the inputs are sensible and the results are used sensibly. If you know the people are likely to misuse them then it's irresponsible not to express them carefully.
Modelling should include your best estimate. Experience is a valid input. If there are confidence limits on figures then great, if not then you use your noodle and say so. You use words like "we expect"!
"The team" should have used their model to reproduce the SA results so they could see what the best fit was, not just ignore things which could be different. Assuming a constant 2-3 day doubling rate is stupid when you know there are constraints on it, and you don't see a 2-3 day doublng rate except for a very short period when the virus arrives. Look athe numbers (left side) here:Fig 1 https://assets.publishing.service.g...44331/20211230_OS__Omicron_Daily_Overview.pdf

Conclusion - what we're told is misleading and has been for weeks. It's not simply a case of "We don't know"; and it's stupid to say that - while scary figures are published..

If you always accounted for the worst possible scenario you wouldn't leave the house. That is NOT the best way to carry on!
 
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View attachment 255763

THE WHO on I thnk the 5th said there had been no deaths from omicron, and coetzee (SP) carried on quite a while after that saying they were only delta, zero omicron deaths.
It's gone up a bit now - - googling....

perhaps you should read the actual report that was published not the media headline…..as frankly those you’ve shown are bullsh1t, they are not what the report says. They’ve taken the info from the graphs in the report which just shows a range of modelling, it’s not the conclusion of the report.

this is a quote from the conclusion of that report, published on the 16th Dec

“A further remaining uncertainty is how severe the disease caused by the Omicron variant is compared to disease caused by previous variants. However, even if severity is one third of the severity of the Delta variant, we could plausibly expect the peak in hospitalisations and deaths to be similar to the levels encountered in previous waves. Whilst it may take several weeks to fully understand severity, governments need to consider putting mitigations in place now to alleviate any potential impact”

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-48-global-omicron/
 
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Why does anybody treat Neil Ferguson as an expert?
If we are to believe information on the Internet his previous predictions turned out to be very wrong...

Bird flu: Ferguson predicted 200 million deaths; the eventual number was 282
Swine flu: Ferguson predicted 65,000 deaths; the eventual number was 457

...to name but two.

"Modelling" sounds very clever and earnest but it is clearly not the truth.

Six questions that Neil Ferguson should be asked | The Spectator
Perhaps you should read what he said not what was published
 
Why don't you read your own links:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.14.21267615v1.full.pdf is invalid - it gives no figure for deaths,

and https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.15.21267858v1.full-text also isn't from Ferguson - invalid.

I don't mind it being pointed out if I misinterpret something in someone's opinion but if they just want to use it as a reason to throw #### while making their own mistakes, then they're a #### and they really need to get a life.
I'm not going to spend hours tracking down your imagined quote.

You made up a quote, then posted screenshots saying different things and complained that I had not somehow realised that I needed to read a study and then explain why the Sun misinterpreted it

Get a grip.
 
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I'm not going to spend hours tracking down your imagined quote.
"Tracking down" what's in front of you, on the screen? I imagined what's on the newspaper? It's on the page above. Sorry that's inconvenient for you to look at.
You posted three links, two of which are utterly irrelevant.

I posted a screenshot - just one - first page of a google search, pointing out that that's what we were told in newspapers from the guy and you claim I/we should all know it's rubbish because it's in a newspaper. I hadn't seen it before neither had you. They get their info from eg Ferguson. Did you have any idea there were three different numbers - Nope, you'd found nothing. Zilch.
Who routinely researches every every news story? Nobody does. If we/the public read that Ferguson predicts 5000/day, we don't go off checking. Both of you get off your high horse.
I found something wrong, not you, and you claim I should have been clairvoyant. The point here is that the public sees silly numbers from this clown

Twitminion you don't seem to be interested in discussing, finding what's going on with the subject. More important for you to post snide remarks about and what you think other forum users should /should not have posted. You contribute nothing.
 
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TRacking down what's in front of you, on thescreen? I imagined what's on the newspaper? It's on the page above. Of course that's inconvenient for you to look at, as you're so important.
You posted three links, two of which are utterly irrelevant.

I posted a screenshot - just one - first page of a google search, pointing out that that's what we were told in newspapers from the guy and you claim I/we should all know it's rubbish because it's in a newspaper. They get their info from eg Ferguson. Did you have any idea there were three different numbers - Nope, you'd found nothing. Zilch.
Do you research every news story? Of course not. Neither does anyone else. Get off your high horse.
I found something wrong, not you, and you claim I should have been clairvoyant.

You don't seem to be interested in discussing, finding what's going on with the subject. More important for you to
post snide remarks about and what you think other forum users should /should not have posted. You contribute nothing.
Did you miss the part where I said it was shoddy reporting? The actual studies are never linked in the Sun or Mail. And working off the Sun or Mail is clearly pointless when they couldn't agree.
 
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