New gas fire being fitted but still unanswered quaestions...

[Longshanks]

Hi again

Many thanks for previous advice given. Apologies for four part query.

1. Have an installer lined up to fit new fire. We still haven’t decided to go with gas or lecky (existing fire is gas and we have flue etc). He came yesterday to assess requirements and I think he said:

• Electric would be cheaper bills
• Electric would be warmer

Is that right? I thought the reverse was the case (Apparently for our room we should only go up to 6kw for gas fire and no more)

2. Second query is about spec if gas fire. He left Plumb Centre catalogue with us and said we should go for slimline and inset type. I’ve had a look and can see that slimline relates to depth etc. Would this recommendation be based on size of room rather than any technical aspect? Funnily enough the one we fancy is the Fidelio Cue High Efficiency but that doesn’t stipulate “slimline” even though depth is only 131mm. Should that be available to us?

3. Third query is merit of buying suite or individual elements. They don’t have any gas fireplace suites in Plumb Centre catalogue so we’d have to get mantle and hearth elsewhere. If the fire costs circa £420 how much roughly would the overall cost of the kit be?

4. Last query. He said if we had gas replacement fire it would probably take him whole day as supply pipe with valve would need to be moved to accommodate nicer and bigger mantle etc (Didn't explain that well but I agree with what he advsied).Can you provide a rough estimate for the work on this basis?

Many thanks for your time.

Should add that this is a nice guy with good reputation so no criticism on that score.

L

 

[simond]

There is only one person that can provide an estimate and you have already met him.

I suppose the equivalent is me asking you to give an estimate for painting my house. It a 4 bed house...... any ideas?

Moving on;

Gas costs around 5.5p per kw input, electricity 14p per kw input.

Electric fires convert 100% of their energy consumed into heat, gas fires depend on the design, as you've noticed.

However the gas fire would have to be around 40% efficient or less to be more expensive to run than LX.

For the price of a decent gas fire and hearth install you could fit Evohome and just use the radiator when you needed to, without the rest of the house being cooked. But that is another story. Gas fires are so last decade.

 

[Longshanks]

Thanks

Very droll re estimate. I suppose the only difference is that I provided some background re buying everything, moving supply pipe, taking a day........

Re Evohome-never heard of before but taken a look on the tinternet. Think er indoors will want to persevere with gas fire.

Also thought someone might have commented on issue re fire in catalogue looking like slimline but not sure etc etc.

Thanks anyway.

 

[FiremanT]

First point. Find another installer,

As SimonD points out, gas is a lot cheaper than electric, but you have to take into account efficiency. some fires are 80%/92% efficient. some are below 20%, A typical non glass models 50- 60%. Also, an electric fire at max is 2Kw (there use to be a 3Kw stove, but I am fairly sure 2Kw is now the max. A gas fire cam have an output of over 4Kw.

you never said what type of flue you have. Did he imply you HAVE to have a slimline, or it would be preferable? if it was a preference, and you have a proper class 1 chimney, he may be trying to avoid chopping out a chair brick. Without question a deep fire is better than a narrow one, if it can be accommodated.

With regard to a cost, it is not fair for us to estimate - we are not there, and don't know your location. If I fit a "full" fireplace, I don't expect to take all day, but the whole is available and charged for. But everything is one for a fixed charge.

In particular, and I suspect this is what he was referring to, if the supply pipe rises from the floor or out of the wall, I chop the building fabric out, to get to a joint or joinable section of pipe below or behind the floor or wall. The pipe is then re routed into the fireplace opening, so there is no visible pipework at the completion. However, part of this work is required in order to cap off the supply invisibly (some would say to cap off at meter etc, but isn't always possible). Just re-read your post, and it suggest that he will only reroute if the pipe is in the way of a "bigger" mantle. It needs rerouting anyway to be done the best.

As far as the cost of the new suite - that really is a length of string question. I have a few in stock to clear for a few hundred, but I have just finished fitting a GAS FIRE ONLY, which has cost the customer in excess of £6K - YES £6K, with fitting, fan flue and building alterations.

Try to post a picture of the front of chimney

 

[Longshanks]

Many thanks FiremanT. We live in a 1981 built house (Wimpey?) I'm not sure exactly what status chimney we have but guess it would be intermediate or Cat 2 if there was such a thing. We have used the old gas fire that was there when we moved in 17 years ago, and In reckon it was out in when house was built.

It's a bit of a moot point re slimline. I've gone back to installer to clarify and am awaiting response. The fire we fancy is the "Fidelio Cue High Efficiency" model. In the Plumb Centre 2015 catalogue it is shown in the inset section but doesn't explicitly state "Slimline" like some of the others. It's 585*500*131mm so barely deeper than the Slims. It also has better max output at 4.1kw and 90% efficiency rating.

Appreciate what you say re routing supply pipe. He definitely mentioned moving in context of appearance and mantle limitation rather than mandatory etc.

Many thanks again.

 

[easyflow]

quote

Should add that this is a nice guy with good reputation so no criticism on that score.

So what,s the problem then, think if this nice guy with a good reputation knew you was asking advice on here that he,s already answered you may have to look else where for a fitter.

 

[Tipper]

Personally I would go for the option that can't kill me through carbon monoxide poisoning.....go electric! You will probably survive an electric shock but not CO poisoning.

(I have a fear of open flamed gas burning appliances, sorry)

 

[FiremanT]

quote

Should add that this is a nice guy with good reputation so no criticism on that score.

So what,s the problem then, think if this nice guy with a good reputation knew you was asking advice on here that he,s already answered you may have to look else where for a fitter.

A good point but I suspect no great loss, frankly.

OP: Has he taken the original fire out to measure space available? As I mentioned before, the profile of the rear of the fire is important - it can impact on the rebate depth of the mantle required.

o you have a chimney breast or a flat wall? Is the outside wall flat or does that have a protrusion? If you see what I mean.

 

[gas112]

I would be using someone else he is giving you wrong advice for whatever reason.
And i have had many many fire surrounds (marble/mantle) from plumbcentre and pretty certain they still do them and the price in the book was usually a fixed price to trade or public .

 

[Longshanks]

Ok comments noted. Comment re fitter was based on someone else's recommendation so going by that. Also seemed very genuine when I met him the other day. I don't think that having questions raises doubts about his professionalism, ethics etc.

Wall is flat with no chimney breast.

Will have another word with him today re project

Thanks