New System Boiler, open therm options??

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by sxturbo, 21 Dec 2019.

  1. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Hi All,

    Early last year i started a thread about replacing COMBI boiler, since that thread, we decided to move house and so never replaced the boiler, as luck would have it i flushed the system again and all was well.

    Anyway, a year since moving into the new house and we have problems with the boiler of this house (a system boiler with Y plan setup), consistent over pressurisation resulting in the relief valve opening, o ring leaks, system has never had steady pressure and i'm constantly topping it up every week.

    I'm going to make it last the winter and replace it spring/summer time.

    I wish to keep my setup as a system boiler as we have got used to being able to use more than 1 tap at a time, and its nice having a shower and someone else able to run water elsewhere in the house at the same time.

    Whilst the new boiler is being installed i wish to have a couple of design flaws rectified (expansion vessel installed on flow pipe before 3 way valve, and system filter installed on CH flow after 3 way valve instead of return pipe) there is reasons as to why these have been installed this way due to space, but in installing a new boiler (located in garage) i can have these rectified. I also wish to do away with the old dial thermostat and honeywell st699 so i have more control over the boiler rather than just 2x set times.

    Now having read up, i quite fancy having fully opentherm controls, but the opentherm appears to severely restrict my options in terms of boiler and controllers.

    Having done a bit of reading it appears the intergas with the honeywell evohome with the hot water opentherm sensor aswell as an external temp sensor is really my only option to be fully opentherm.

    I like the idea of the evohome, it would certainly help in my sons room, that is exposed on 3 sides with a low pitch roof and gets quite cold at night in the depths of winter.

    However my concern is the wireless protocol on the evohome is not completely reliable, and its quite old now, so surely its not going to be long until its made obsolete.

    in terms of boiler i'm thinking of the intergas HRE 24s, but this and the evohome is rather quite expensive at around £3k inc evohome without fitting.

    so i have looked at alternative boilers all with 10 year warranties

    I can get an ATAG boiler installed for circa £1700 + cost of evohome

    There is also the option of the BAXI 824 system boiler similar cost same as above

    or

    Ferroli BlueHelix RRT 24S for about £1500 also with 10 year warranty + evohome

    anyway the actual question is:

    are these my only options, and is the opentherm feature worthwhile?

    i'VE got one chance to do it, and i want to get it right and hopefully future proof a little bit. If its got to be £3+k then thats what its got to be.
     
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  3. MeldrewsMate

    MeldrewsMate

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    Buy something made in Britain, like the Ideal Vogue or Logic plus, both with Opentherm.

    It's important to make jobs in Britain.
     
  4. muggles

    muggles

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    Intergas is the way forward, although go for the ECO RF as it's the same price and has a 10 year warranty. Yes it's a combi, but change Parameter 1 from 0 to 1 and it's then a system boiler.

    If you're concerned about cost, the Honeywell T6R-HW will give you OpenTherm control of both heating and hot water with Intergas. ATAG might be worth a look but they're a bit limited on availability, Baxi isn't proper OpenTherm and Ferroli have a terrible reputation.

    Remember though that the quality of installation is as important as the boiler chosen. The cheapest installer is very unlikely to be the best
     
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  5. muggles

    muggles

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    If we made decent kit, people would buy it. Sadly, we don't
     
  6. MeldrewsMate

    MeldrewsMate

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    That'd be your opinion? And your work?
    Q. What do you think happens each time a pound goes out of this country to pay for an import?
    A. We ALL get a little poorer. It may take 5 years for that to translate into lost jobs, but as sure as night follows day it'll happen.
    An example for you to consider, close to home. Suppose Mini sales fell (they're MADE in Oxford, so there are jobs in Oxford). Firstly there'd be lay-offs, then job losses, then outsourcing/factory closure; all bad outcomes both for the workers at Mini AND for the component suppliers, for the local cafes, bars, hairdressers, and the like (the unemployed don't buy much of those services). Furthermore tax revenues for the Exchequer fall, so tax rates nationally rise to compensate. Those newly unemployed, instead of paying tax in, now draw YOUR tax money out of the system.
    And the retired are not immune, their government pensions will be squeezed, bus fares/train fares will rise as Govt reins-in local Authority grants, the Police and other emergency services will see cutbacks too...maybe it'll be you or yours that need them next?
    And that, my friend, is how we all get a little poorer by buying foreign made.

    The crazy counter argument is that the Skoda salesman down the road now earns a bit more from his increased sales. All that proves is that SOME people will have a greater ability to take a larger share of that shrinking cake, leaving less for the less able.
    Even crazier is that some will argue "the mini is Geeeerrrrman, nerrr!". A crap and ignorant argument, it's MADE here, so the JOBS are here, and we ALL benefit here.

    Rant over, but the argument is robust and stands.
     
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  7. MeldrewsMate

    MeldrewsMate

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    OP, apologies for hi-jacking your thread. I must have had some spare time.
     
  8. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Thanks guys.

    I hear what your saying about the ideal boiler however from what I've heard especially from there aftercare it puts me off the ideal.

    I know ferroli is in my list, but I've had ferroli before and these were really good when we had issues under warranty. Also all the issues we had were down to system design errors which I subsequently sorted, that said hear say still puts me off them.

    I've only heard good things about intergas and Atag, a mate of mines just had an Atag installed and seems ok, but had none of the smart stuff installed.

    The installer will hopefully be a guy who was recommended to me on here, so the quality will be there on the install side,

    Appreciate your replies. They've been really helpful.

    The Honeywell t6r, does this modulate the boiler when heating hot water also, or does just the evohome do this?
     
  9. muggles

    muggles

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    If you're going for Intergas, the cylinder sensor will modulate the boiler as the cylinder approaches setpoint. The T6R-HW will provide the timings
     
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  11. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Awesome cheers guys, all my queries answered.
     
  12. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Hi guys,

    Got the guy coming round next week to have a look at the system and advise.

    I like doing my own research prior to trades coming over so that I have basic understanding when having discussions and so im not sold a pup.

    Having looked at the intergas range and skimming through the manuals and spec sheets, the newer intergas xclusive appears to also offer what I feel I want. However it seems to have much better modulation than the eco RF.

    Would it be worth the extra £100 for the xclusive over the eco RF? (Prices according to the intergas shop)
     
  13. dilalio

    dilalio

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    RF has the 10 year warranty.
    Is it Dan coming over to you?
    He will advise you as to the differences between the 2.
     
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  14. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Cheers looks like they both have the 10 year warranty.

    It's not Dan coming round, it's a gent called Dean Robinson (no relation) whom Dan recommended when I was in my last House.
     
  15. muggles

    muggles

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    Ah yes, Dean is also good, and lurks around in here as @Dean744PiN5 sometimes :)
     
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  16. dilalio

    dilalio

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    OK on the warranty. (y)
    I usually opt for the RF as it has been about longer and is a smaller unit IIRC. But, having the EV accessible is good, as is the dual OT connections for additional zoning.
    I know Dan mentioned an issue recently with one of the new models firing through back voltage but can't recall which one and it was also due to the control setup... Honeywell supplied a suppressor to deal with it.

    I know of Dean Robinson, we both do work for/with Dan now and again... Its always a tad confusing for customers as I'm Dean also :)
     
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  17. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    Thanks Dean, the ev was why I was thinking of it, (that's an issue with my current boiler)

    I'll wait and discuss with Dean when he comes round. I want the honey well stay so hopefully that will all be good.
     
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