No earth at house

[Greenybob]

Hi we rent a house and the landlord had a electrition come and do a check on electrics.I heard the electrition tell the landlord he couldn't do any checks because their is no earth to the house.I looked on line and found
it to be dangerous from faulty washing machines ect.Is it legal not to have
no earth in a house in the uk 2015

Many thanks
Greenybob

 

[sparkwright]

Not enough info.

He could be talking about no earth at the supply, which could be a knackered lead sheath on a TNS supply, or bad TT supply.

The above examples would make testing the installation difficult if not impossible.

 

[eveares]

he couldn't do any checks

That's not true, not all tests involve the main incoming earth; however a lot of tests do rely on it' and the main incoming earth is their for safety reasons and is very important.

Having no main incoming earth would also be a Code 1 on a Periodic Inspection Report.


Can you please post a picture of your service cutout, as it will likely help us on here (the forum) determine your earthing system.

With a TT system and possibly a TN-S system, you might also have the possibility of getting the DNO out to convert it into a TN-C-S system what will give you an effective earth.

Is it legal not to have no earth in a house in the uk 2015

I would hope so, although BS7671 is not law; also one could certainly get in legal trouble if some one was killed or seriously hurt due to the lack of a main incoming earth.

 

[JohnW2]

he couldn't do any checks

That's not true, not all tests involve the main incoming earth; however a lot of tests do rely on it' and the main incoming earth is their for safety reasons and is very important.

That's all true - but, if there were literally no earth at all (I suppose unlikley, given probable 'parallel paths' to earth), then there would be few, if any, live tests which could be undertaken (at all, or usefully).

Kind Regards, John

 

[eveares]

That's all true - but, if there were literally no earth at all (I suppose unlikley, given probable 'parallel paths' to earth), then there would be few, if any, live tests which could be undertaken (at all, or usefully).

Only a few tests?; Insulation Resistance test, R1 + R2 measurements, RFC loop impedance testing, L to N voltage, and Phase angle test can all be done without a incoming earth can't they?

 

[Risteard]

Insulation Resistance test ... can all be done without a incoming earth can't they?

Not correctly. BS 7671 requires that the means of earthing is connected whilst undertaking the insulation resistance test. Otherwise a fault to earth but not to the cpc would not be evident during testing.

 

[JohnW2]

That's all true - but, if there were literally no earth at all (I suppose unlikley, given probable 'parallel paths' to earth), then there would be few, if any, live tests which could be undertaken (at all, or usefully).

Only a few tests?; Insulation Resistance test, R1 + R2 measurements, RFC loop impedance testing, L to N voltage, and Phase angle test can all be done without a incoming earth can't they?

Yes, and that was the point I was making. All the tests you mention could be undertaken (although, as Risteard has pointed out, complete IR testing could not be done) - but (assuming 'RFC loop impedance' means ring 'continuity' testing), as I said, none of them other than L-N voltage and 'phase angle tests' are live tests. 'Phase angle' is irrelevant in a single phase installation and, although one can measure L-N potential difference, one cannot confirm correct polarity without an earth.

Kind Regards

 

[eveares]

Not correctly. BS 7671 requires that the means of earthing is connected whilst undertaking the insulation resistance test. Otherwise a fault to earth but not to the cpc would not be evident during testing.

Thats very true, but I was talking about IR tests of the cables only that make up the circuits in the house, i.e. the IR testing you could do on a reel of cable for example.

Of course with a effective means of earthing, you could get a fault between line and earth that does not involve the CPC as a return path but instead the physical ground back to the incoming earth as the return path.

although one can measure L-N potential difference, one cannot confirm correct polarity without an earth.

So while one should not, could you not identify line by using a non contact voltage tester due to the potential of line being above the physical ground (i.e. what you stand on) what is at the potential that earth is normally at?. In other words, the ground your standing on would effectively be your earth.

 

[JohnW2]

although one can measure L-N potential difference, one cannot confirm correct polarity without an earth.

So while one should not, could you not identify line by using a non contact voltage tester due to the potential of line being above the physical ground (i.e. what you stand on) what is at the potential that earth is normally at?. In other words, the ground your standing on would effectively be your earth.

Sure one could do that, and it would usually give the correct answer, but, as you acknowledge ("one should not"), one should not rely on that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

Surely after firstly checking the Ze, then coming to the conclusion there's no decent earth, the electrician would very likely decide not to bother testing anything else until this is rectified.

I imagine he would want to do all the tests at the same time.

I think he would be reluctant to start 'messing about' with this installation knowing it's got a bad earth already.

If it's a TNS supply it's not as though he can fix the earth so it remains TNS.

 

[JohnW2]

Surely after firstly checking the Ze, then coming to the conclusion there's no decent earth, the electrician would very likely decide not to bother testing anything else until this is rectified.

Quite so - and it sounds as if the electrician mentioned in the OP did more-or-less that. In fact, from the OP it almost sounded as if he didn't even check Ze, but merely observed that no earth was connected to the installation - but that may not have been the case.

Kind Regards, John