No supply, is it a supply problem or the Elster A1140 meter

[oldcardriver]

I have a 3 phase supply at my property, one for the normal electricity, another for the night storage heaters and the third is not in use.

Yesterday I came home to find no heating AND the Elster A1140 meter digital-display is blank, ie not working. Is it possible that the meter is faulty and has switched off the heating supply, ie can the meter switch off the supply, OR is it definitely a supply problem.

If it’s a supply problem then I can go direct to the Power Transmission company, if it could be the meter then I have to go to Eon which could take an age. How do I confirm which it is, could a certified electrician verify which it is?

EDIT: there is no problem with the normal supply.

 

[dannyboi2003]

I'd ring the DNO (power transmission company) first as they'll likely attend fairly quickly and you won't be charged. Just report a loss of supply and let them investigate, if it turns out the meter is faulty then you can contact your supplier.

 

[oldcardriver]

I'd ring the DNO (power transmission company) first as they'll likely attend fairly quickly and you won't be charged. Just report a loss of supply and let them investigate, if it turns out the meter is faulty then you can contact your supplier.

Good thinking, thanks.

 

[oldcardriver]

I phoned UK Power Networks at 8.30, their electrician arrived 2hr later! He said that the supply was there but the Heating Contactor, which is fitted between the meter and the consumer unit, is faulty.

 

[JohnW2]

I phoned UK Power Networks at 8.30, their electrician arrived 2hr later! He said that the supply was there but the Heating Contactor, which is fitted between the meter and the consumer unit, is faulty.

Thanks for the update.

Whilst the fault you describe would obviously mean that the meter would not be showing any usage related to the phase being used for heating, the meter should be otherwise working (not 'blank') - and showing the total figures across all three phases. If the meter display is 'blank' (despite pressing the button etc.), then it sounds as if there is something wrong with the meter as well as the fault with the contactor.

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldcardriver]

Thanks for the update.

Whilst the fault you describe would obviously mean that the meter would not be showing any usage related to the phase being used for heating, the meter should be otherwise working (not 'blank') - and showing the total figures across all three phases. If the meter display is 'blank' (despite pressing the button etc.), then it sounds as if there is something wrong with the meter as well as the fault with the contactor.

Kind Regards, John

Thanks, yes, I pressed the right hand button and still not registering anything.

More info here:-

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/how-to-get-eon-to-replace-their-faulty-equipment.571330/

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks, yes, I pressed the right hand button and still not registering anything.

Thanks. Is the meter totally 'dead' - i.e. (assuming you currently are using some electricity!) is the right-hand LED not flashing (and maybe the lef-hand one constantly lit)?

If it is totally dead, it would seem to be an amazing co-incidence that the (obviously totally 'unrelated') meter and contactor should have failed simultaneously. Is it possible that the meter had been 'dead' for some time, and that you only noticed that yesterday when the heating also failed?

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldcardriver]

Thanks. Is the meter totally 'dead' - i.e. (assuming you currently are using some electricity!) is the right-hand LED not flashing (and maybe the lef-hand one constantly lit)?

If it is totally dead, it would seem to be an amazing co-incidence that the (obviously totally 'unrelated') meter and contactor should have failed simultaneously. Is it possible that the meter had been 'dead' for some time, and that you only noticed that yesterday when the heating also failed?

Kind Regards, John

Thanks, yes the meter appears to be totally dead.

I eventually spoke to 3 English people and got some sense, the last one said that the meter is faulty. Eon or a representative is coming in 2 weeks to change the meter and hopefully the Contactor if it is faulty. I note that according to the Proteus website they no longer market “my” Contactor but a steel cased one with the same reference number, however there is a “new” one on eBay!

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks, yes the meter appears to be totally dead.

What about the seemingly 'amazing co-incidence' - is it possible that it was dead for some time before the loss of heating brought the meter problem to your attention?

I eventually spoke to 3 English people and got some sense, the last one said that the meter is faulty. Eon or a representative is coming in 2 weeks to change the meter and hopefully the Contactor if it is faulty.

Does that mean that you are going to be without heat for 2 weeks? In May, that wouldn't normally matter - but I'm not so sure this year!!

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldcardriver]

What about the seemingly 'amazing co-incidence' - is it possible that it was dead for some time before the loss of heating brought the meter problem to your attention?
Does that mean that you are going to be without heat for 2 weeks? In May, that wouldn't normally matter - but I'm not so sure this year!!

Kind Regards, John

Yes, I don’t know when either of them failed, I have been away for a while and when I returned the heating was off, but I don’t think that it had been off for more than a few days as the place was cold but warmer than outside. So that’s when I noticed that the meter was not working.

The property has 3 phases, one for normal electricity, one for the night storage, and one unused, consequently I can heat the property using the electric at normal rates, hopefully I can make a claim for the extra cost. More details here:-

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/no-supply-is-it-a-supply-problem-or-the-elster-a1140-meter.571304/

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, I don’t know when either of them failed, I have been away for a while and when I returned the heating was off, but I don’t think that it had been off for more than a few days as the place was cold but warmer than outside. So that’s when I noticed that the meter was not working.

Fair enough. It's possible that the failures were not actually 'simultaneous', then - which would make it (a little!) less of an 'amazing co-incidence!

The property has 3 phases, one for normal electricity, one for the night storage, and one unused, consequently I can heat the property using the electric a normal rates, hopefully I can make a claim for the extra cost.

I presume that, without some alteration to wiring, you could not run the storage heaters of the 'normal electricity' phase - so I presume you mean that you have some other means of electrical heating?

As for "...hopefully I can make a claim for the extra cost.", I suspect that won't be necessary. If the meter is totally dead, it presumably won't be registering your additional 'normal rate' usage (or anything else), so they will have to just estimate your usage, presumably on the basis of what it normally is when the storage heaters (and their contactor!) are working?

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldcardriver]

Fair enough. It's possible that the failures were not actually 'simultaneous', then - which would make it (a little!) less of an 'amazing co-incidence!
I presume that, without some alteration to wiring, you could not run the storage heaters of the 'normal electricity' phase - so I presume you mean that you have some other means of electrical heating?

As for "...hopefully I can make a claim for the extra cost.", I suspect that won't be necessary. If the meter is totally dead, it presumably won't be registering your additional 'normal rate' usage (or anything else), so they will have to just estimate your usage, presumably on the basis of what it normally is when the storage heaters (and their contactor!) are working?

Kind Regards, John

Yes, I have several “normal” electric fires that I am using and a bathroom infa red heater.

Yes, you are probably right, it will be interesting to see what they do about the charges. The meter was supposed to have been read last week, but even if it was working then, we don’t think anyone came to read the meter, other than that, the meter has not been read for a year or so.

I would also add that the UK Power Networks guy that I spoke to on the phone said that if the supply fails then the meter will not register a reading, but we will see. EDIT: I AM TALKING NONSENSE HERE, because the supply to the meter didn’t fail, and if I understood the UK Power Networks guy correctly, there is a supply to the meter AND then on to the Contactor but no feed from the Contactor to the night storage consumer unit.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, you are probably right, it will be interesting to see what they do about the charges. The meter was supposed to have been read last week, but even if it was working then, we don’t think anyone came to read the meter, other than that, the meter has not been read for a year or so.

Mine (currently the same as yours) has not been read for several years, despite a change in supplier - so they have been totally reliant on my readings and their own estimates based thereon!

I would also add that the UK Power Networks guy that I spoke to on the phone said that if the supply fails then the meter will not register a reading, but we will see.

If the supply fails, there will obviously be no new usage to register. As for the 'readings' already in the meter, I imagine that they are probably stored in non-volatile memory and/or battery-backed-up, since otherwise the briefest of power cuts (plenty of which we get here!) would destroy all the information. - if they are, then it might be possible to recover them even if the display fails.

However, I don't think we have any reason to believe that your supply ever did 'fail', have we? - in which case those comments would be moot!

Kind Regards, John

 

[oldcardriver]

I have done an edit clarifying my previous post.

EDIT: there is also the supply to the meter from the supply phase for the “normal” electricity, that also passes through this meter to the “normal” consumer unit.