Noisy system (can't see the specific problem in the FAQ)
- Thread starter geoffa
- Start date
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The red gate valve is between the pump and the bottom of the HW cylinder.
Fuller description from a previous posting:
The system is actually controlled by two 2-way valves. So answer to Razor900 is that above the pump the pipe splits into two 22mm pipes - one goes to a two way valve (A) and then the water cylinder just below the centre; the other immediately splits - one 22mm goes into the other 2-way valve (B), then vertically down through the floor; the other is 15mm through a red gate valve (permanently open) which then joins a 22mm into the bottom of the cylinder (with valve by the tank), in the other direction again down under the floor.
Based on your question, this morning I tried closing the red valve before the system started up. When the timer switched it on, no hot water seemed to flow into the cylinder. When I opened the red valve, after a significant delay, hot water flowed strongly into the cylinder. I then tried closing the red valve; the hot water pipe into the cylinder became much cooler over a few minutes though the pipe didn't actually go cold. I then repeated this a couple more times and the same thing happened - when red valve open HW flowing into the cylinder, when red valve closed pipe cooled down.
Hope this helps
Geoff
Fuller description from a previous posting:
The system is actually controlled by two 2-way valves. So answer to Razor900 is that above the pump the pipe splits into two 22mm pipes - one goes to a two way valve (A) and then the water cylinder just below the centre; the other immediately splits - one 22mm goes into the other 2-way valve (B), then vertically down through the floor; the other is 15mm through a red gate valve (permanently open) which then joins a 22mm into the bottom of the cylinder (with valve by the tank), in the other direction again down under the floor.
Based on your question, this morning I tried closing the red valve before the system started up. When the timer switched it on, no hot water seemed to flow into the cylinder. When I opened the red valve, after a significant delay, hot water flowed strongly into the cylinder. I then tried closing the red valve; the hot water pipe into the cylinder became much cooler over a few minutes though the pipe didn't actually go cold. I then repeated this a couple more times and the same thing happened - when red valve open HW flowing into the cylinder, when red valve closed pipe cooled down.
Hope this helps
Geoff
I am sorry but you are making it more confusing.
You description mentions just one red valve which is a 15 mm.
You second paragraph also tells about a red valve but this is obviously going to be a 22 mm because it controls the flow to the cylinder heating coil.
On your system the 15 mm red valve is presumably a bypass which with two port valves is not required and should normally be closed UNLESS you have ( wrongly ) TRVs on all the rads. If that were the case then the 15 mm red valve should be closed and then opened just one turn.
Now during all this you have not commented on the noise which was your original complaint.
All valves have a progressive action and are not just open or closed but have gradations in between. Sometimes its possible to "tune out" some circulating noises.
I assume the pump is on setting "2" ?
Tony
You description mentions just one red valve which is a 15 mm.
You second paragraph also tells about a red valve but this is obviously going to be a 22 mm because it controls the flow to the cylinder heating coil.
On your system the 15 mm red valve is presumably a bypass which with two port valves is not required and should normally be closed UNLESS you have ( wrongly ) TRVs on all the rads. If that were the case then the 15 mm red valve should be closed and then opened just one turn.
Now during all this you have not commented on the noise which was your original complaint.
All valves have a progressive action and are not just open or closed but have gradations in between. Sometimes its possible to "tune out" some circulating noises.
I assume the pump is on setting "2" ?
Tony
My apologies, certainly not my intention. I have a little but not much knowledge on all this.
Above the pump is a T valve - one 22mm goes to a 2 way valve which goes to the middle of the cylinder and seems to be the hot water from the boiler.
The other 22mm from the pump itself goes to a T one side of which goes to a 2 way valve which I think controls CH - it goes down through floor.
The other side of this second T is the bypass pipe which you are interested in - it is 15mm with the red gate valve in the middle.
The other end of the bypass connects not to the bottom of the cylinder itself, but to a 22mm pipe going from the bottom of the tank down through the floor. This is cooler than the other 22mm into the tank so I assume is the return to the boiler.
The rads do all have TRVs, but I have (already) removed the top of the one in the hall so that it cannot shut.
I cannot actually see the pump setting as it is behind the pump, but it seems to be on the middle setting of 3 possibilities - so presumably 2.
The only other thing I can think of, mentioned early in the thread, is that the cylinder is "solar ready", so I don't know if that would provide the need for a bypass - apparently the switch over when/if we install solar is simple for a plumber, but involves changing some of the connection points already established to the cylinder.
The noise is I'm afraid still sometimes present, especially when the water in the cylinder is hot - but doesn't seem so loud.
If you do have any final thoughts on other things I could try (e.g. things to "tune out" the noise sounds worth a try) then I'd appreciate it.
For now I will leave eveything as it is, with the bypass valve closed, over a period of time to see what happens.
Very many thanks to you for your perseverance, very much appreciated.
If anything dramatic changes I will firstly try opening the bypass valve by 1 turn - if still a problem I will update this post.
Regards and thanks again,
Geoff
View media item 11903
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Above the pump is a T valve - one 22mm goes to a 2 way valve which goes to the middle of the cylinder and seems to be the hot water from the boiler.
The other 22mm from the pump itself goes to a T one side of which goes to a 2 way valve which I think controls CH - it goes down through floor.
The other side of this second T is the bypass pipe which you are interested in - it is 15mm with the red gate valve in the middle.
The other end of the bypass connects not to the bottom of the cylinder itself, but to a 22mm pipe going from the bottom of the tank down through the floor. This is cooler than the other 22mm into the tank so I assume is the return to the boiler.
The rads do all have TRVs, but I have (already) removed the top of the one in the hall so that it cannot shut.
I cannot actually see the pump setting as it is behind the pump, but it seems to be on the middle setting of 3 possibilities - so presumably 2.
The only other thing I can think of, mentioned early in the thread, is that the cylinder is "solar ready", so I don't know if that would provide the need for a bypass - apparently the switch over when/if we install solar is simple for a plumber, but involves changing some of the connection points already established to the cylinder.
The noise is I'm afraid still sometimes present, especially when the water in the cylinder is hot - but doesn't seem so loud.
If you do have any final thoughts on other things I could try (e.g. things to "tune out" the noise sounds worth a try) then I'd appreciate it.
For now I will leave eveything as it is, with the bypass valve closed, over a period of time to see what happens.
Very many thanks to you for your perseverance, very much appreciated.
If anything dramatic changes I will firstly try opening the bypass valve by 1 turn - if still a problem I will update this post.
Regards and thanks again,
Geoff
View media item 11903
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Your picture is now private??
Unfortunately you have now mentioned a "T" valve.
I would interpret this as a three port motorised valve. This does not usually need a bypass unless the TRVs can all close.
You also mention a two port. That will be in series with the three port valve and is a safety device designed to close if the cylinder gets too hot.
Tony
Unfortunately you have now mentioned a "T" valve.
I would interpret this as a three port motorised valve. This does not usually need a bypass unless the TRVs can all close.
You also mention a two port. That will be in series with the three port valve and is a safety device designed to close if the cylinder gets too hot.
Tony
Oh dear I'm not very good at the technical terms or the photo feature.
The reference to T valve and T should both be to a T join/connector - just a plain split in the pipe - don't know the correct term. I can't immediately see reference to a T port in what I've posted
I hope photo now showing - should have explored that earlier - hopefully it will clarify above
Rgds
Geoff
The reference to T valve and T should both be to a T join/connector - just a plain split in the pipe - don't know the correct term. I can't immediately see reference to a T port in what I've posted
I hope photo now showing - should have explored that earlier - hopefully it will clarify above
Rgds
Geoff
Right, now that we can see your picture its clear that you have TWO two port valves!
In that case you DO need a bypass.
Close the 15 mm red valve and then open it by exactly one full turn. I would wonder if the cylinder was professionally installed and if the overheat stat has been connected up.
Was the Benchmark Certificate for the boiler and the one for the cylinder completed?
Tony
In that case you DO need a bypass.
Close the 15 mm red valve and then open it by exactly one full turn. I would wonder if the cylinder was professionally installed and if the overheat stat has been connected up.
Was the Benchmark Certificate for the boiler and the one for the cylinder completed?
Tony
I have left the valve now one turn open. The noise still happens, less often but fairly regularly - it seems to be when the water has heated up from cool/cold for about 45-60 minutes - and when the noise starts I have noticed that the cylinder stat is still asking for heat but the boiler is not firing.
Builder came today - of course "the noise" didn't happen while he was there, and his view is that it was a professional guy who installed it (he has at least a Corgi number) so it needs a warranty visit from the manufacturer.
Yes I do have (not with me) the certficate for the boiler and can't immediately find but believe I have the one for the cylinder.
Is this overheat stat something I can check myself if I take the front off the boiler?
I think to be honest that you have helped me a great deal with things to check and I don't want to take any more of your time - so if you have any immediate thoiughts based on above info please say - and I suggest I then go down the manufacturer route.
Rgds
Geoff
Builder came today - of course "the noise" didn't happen while he was there, and his view is that it was a professional guy who installed it (he has at least a Corgi number) so it needs a warranty visit from the manufacturer.
Yes I do have (not with me) the certficate for the boiler and can't immediately find but believe I have the one for the cylinder.
Is this overheat stat something I can check myself if I take the front off the boiler?
I think to be honest that you have helped me a great deal with things to check and I don't want to take any more of your time - so if you have any immediate thoiughts based on above info please say - and I suggest I then go down the manufacturer route.
Rgds
Geoff
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