Paris lockdown to prevent third Covid wave.

[Mottie]

Apparently, Paris is going into lockdown as France fears a third wave of Covid infections. With a population around the same size as the U.K. but spread out over a much larger area, they only have roughly 1 in 16 of the population vaccinated compared to less than 1 in 3 in the UK. According to the article, only 20% of the population have confidence in the Astra Zeneca vaccination. Why is that? EU scaremongering? It’s got to stop.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56450880

 

[Notch7]

this 3rd wave is certainly a huge worry for Europe.

I'm not sure how the EU is scaremongering, the EMA has consistently announced its confidence in the AZ vaccine.

 

[Mottie]

I'm surprised they put a temporary stop on it then. That and the other reason you hit on (bad public health messaging) surely has a lot to do with it. There’s no better way of frightening people than stopping the injections.

 

[Notch7]

I'm surprised they put a temporary stop on it then.

I'm not sure the EMA or EU did.

It's been individual nation states.


As far as I can see it's been a catastrophic failure in public health messaging by European govts

Either that, or Ellal has been very busy spreading fear in Europe and putting people off.

 

[EddieM]

Yeah, I don't feel it's the EU per se. But 1) the EU has screwed up their vaccine procurement process, despite protestations by some members on here to the contrary and 2) Some member states have really botched their messaging to their general publics e.g. Macron stating with no evidence that the vaccine was only quasi effective in over 65's and Germany bungling their messages to the general public over the AZ efficacy in over 65's. Sure countries are perfectly within their rights to state that they're not convinced with the data, but the message to the general population has to be handled much more carefully than certain EU countries did. This is why they find themselves in a precarious situation, which is something we all need to be concerned about. The more people infected in which the virus can freely replicate, the more variants there will be.

 

[ellal]

As far as I can see it's been a catastrophic failure in public health messaging by European govts

Maybe then you could tell us why the UK has had the highest death rate from the 'virus' in Europe except Belgium?

Is that not also a 'catastrophic failure in public health messaging'?

 

[Bodd]

this 3rd wave is certainly a huge worry for Europe.

I'm not sure how the EU is scaremongering, the EMA has consistently announced its confidence in the AZ vaccine.

All this with Brexit the EU want to make the British pay. This is part of it...no concern for their citizens or the businesses this obsession is affecting.

 

[Mottie]

All this with Brexit the EU want to make the British pay. This is part of it...no concern for their citizens or the businesses this obsession is affecting.

There’s some on this forum like that.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think many under-estimate the intelligence of their European counterparts. They are more than capable of differentiating between EU Commission, EMA and their own nation states governments. Maybe UK citizens struggle, but Europeans do not.

Then some posters suggest that EU institutions and member states governments confuse the public, but then they claim that EU botched their procurement process. The statements could not be more oxymoronic.
The EU did not botch their procurement process. AZ failed to deliver its scheduled deliveries. One could argue that the 10 million doses that were exported to UK were diverted from the EU schedule to fulfil the UK schedule.
Then someone else suggests the EU actions are revenge against UK. That is such nonsense. As far as EU is concerned, Brexit is done, it's happened, move on, but apply the Agreement and processes that you agreed, and stop trying to reinvent that Agreement.

Macron did initially mistakenly question the efficacy of AZ vaccine for over 65s. That was corrected by his spokesperson. What Macron should have said is that the data is not available for the effectiveness for over 65s, which it wasn't.
The same applied to Germany's questions over the efficacy for the AZ vaccine. There was no data available for that age group and the vaccine had been approved without that data being available.
There is a greater emphasis placed on the precautionary principle for vaccines and treatments in states like France and Germany, than that applied in UK.
That is a general and normal medical precaution.
As Paul Nurse explained, in this case the precautionary principle does not consider the consequences of not doing something. In this example, at the macro level, the benefits outweigh the risks, but you do not always ignore the risks in order to enjoy the benefits. That would be irrational.

 

[EddieM]

I think many under-estimate the intelligence of their European counterparts. They are more than capable of differentiating between EU Commission, EMA and their own nation states governments. Maybe UK citizens struggle, but Europeans do not.

Then some posters suggest that EU institutions and member states governments confuse the public, but then they claim that EU botched their procurement process. The statements could not be more oxymoronic.
The EU did not botch their procurement process. AZ failed to deliver its scheduled deliveries. One could argue that the 10 million doses that were exported to UK were diverted from the EU schedule to fulfil the UK schedule.
Then someone else suggests the EU actions are revenge against UK. That is such nonsense. As far as EU is concerned, Brexit is done, it's happened, move on, but apply the Agreement and processes that you agreed, and stop trying to reinvent that Agreement.

Wrong. you can write your false interpretation as many times as you like, but you'll still be wrong.

 

[Notch7]

All this with Brexit the EU want to make the British pay. This is part of it...no concern for their citizens or the businesses this obsession is affecting.

No that's not true....it's the message put out by the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph.

The EU have never wanted the UK to suffer due to Brexit. In fact all during negotiations, the EU offered constant offers of extensions to help avoid the disruption we now have.


But sadly the pro Brexit supporters won't accept the problems have been created deliberately by this government in their pursuit of a hard Brexit and divisive propaganda.

 

[Mottie]

As far as EU is concerned, Brexit is done, it's happened, move on

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Wrong. you can write your false interpretation as many times as you like, but you'll still be wrong.

I could repeat your comment back to you, exactly as you wrote it, but as it has no supportive argument or evidence, I'll refrain from making pointless remarks.

I see EU have started legal proceedings against AZ.

EU to send letter to AstraZeneca in possible first step of legal action
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...first-step-of-legal-action-idUSKBN2BA1CF?il=0​

 

[Notch7]

the EU has screwed up their vaccine procurement process

That is certainly true.

It's hard to know whether that has influenced messaging.


I actually think because the UK govt started so badly with its herd immunity approach, with amongst e worst economic and death figures, it has spurred it into throwing everything at vaccine procurement and rollout.

We should be grateful this govt has succeeded in vaccines as otherwise we would be facing a crippling 3rd wave.

 

[Notch7]

The EU did not botch their procurement process

I don't think you can really make a case for that, look at the timeline.